Whether Lifted Gloss Equals Paper Loss and How it Affects PSA grade for you.

[RiceBondsMntna2Young]

Wanted to get a second opinion about whether the missing gloss in the top right white border constitututes paper loss to you?

How would it affect your appraisal of a card in terms of PSA (or SGC) grade?

How would it affect your personal appraisal of the card, dollar-wise and feels-wise? What about if the card was already graded Altered?

Thanks for your thoughts!

[bn2cardz]

I would believe that is an indicator of a rebuilt corner.

[LuckyLarry]

vintage dried out tape removal? I dont know how PSA would grade this I would guess paper loss.
Larry

[perezfan]

Unfortunately, the answer is contingent upon who is submitting the card.

In this case, I would lean more towards tape removal (or perhaps the result of using a mounting corner) than a completely rebuilt corner.

[samosa4u]

Take it into a dark room and shine a UV light over it.

[Johnny630]

Depends on whom submits the card>>>>that's the bottom line

[drcy]

Looks more than lifted gloss. Looks as if the first layer of the stock is removed.

[RiceBondsMntna2Young]

Originally Posted by drcy

Looks more than lifted gloss. Looks as if the first layer of the stock is removed.

Agreed, so what do you think the grade impact should be?

Originally Posted by perezfan

Unfortunately, the answer is contingent upon who is submitting the card.

In this case, I would lean more towards tape removal (or perhaps the result of using a mounting corner) than a completely rebuilt corner.

Originally Posted by LuckyLarry

vintage dried out tape removal? I dont know how PSA would grade this I would guess paper loss.
Larry

It also looks to me like a piece of tape stripped off the top layer on that corner. Do you dock a grade (2, 3 grades?) automatically for that? Or is the ceiling for any card with this type of surface damage, say a PSA 2, max, no matter how otherwise nice?

I haven't seen the card in person but I'm trying to nail down a fair price range for a card that already has a confirmed trimmed edge. The discussion is, how would this card otherwise grade if it hadn't been trimmed - like how does it show? The subtract from there since it's also altered.

[perezfan]

Ugh... everyone is still so hung up on a number grade. It's really quite meaningless to assign a number to this.

I guess if you were to pretend it's not altered, then maybe a 3 at best.

If the tape (or whatever it was) took off more than just the glaze, and it lost the very top layer of paper, then a 2 at best. But either way it's an "A" so what does it really matter?

[JollyElm]

I know you're showing the area 'missing' the gloss, but the picture makes it confusing, as it looks like there is paper loss there. Can you post a picture where we can see what the card 'really' looks like overall? In other words, not in a way/angle intended to show a lack of gloss in a specific area, but what the card actually looks like in hand?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Ugh... everyone is still so hung up on a number grade. It's really quite meaningless to assign a number to this.

I guess if you were to pretend it's not altered, then maybe a 3 at best.

If the tape (or whatever it was) took off more than just the glaze, and it lost the very top layer of paper, then a 2 at best. But either way it's an "A" so what does it really matter?

Mark they’re hung up on number grade because it’s all about the money what they can get for it when they sell it. It’s a shame....psa has them hooked like a trailer

[RiceBondsMntna2Young]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Ugh... everyone is still so hung up on a number grade. It's really quite meaningless to assign a number to this.

I guess if you were to pretend it's not altered, then maybe a 3 at best.

If the tape (or whatever it was) took off more than just the glaze, and it lost the very top layer of paper, then a 2 at best. But either way it's an "A" so what does it really matter?

The number grade only matters insofar as you’re trying to establish an approximate fair market value for something. I’m as severe a critic of TPGs as anyone but part of the reason they have such a powerful hold on the industry is that when done right, a numerical grade can help collectors put a card on a rough curve, charting condition and therefore dollar value. Until there’s another better objective platform on which to discuss subjective value, this is the best I can think of right now if I want to be able to speak the same language as the seller.

[RiceBondsMntna2Young]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Mark they’re hung up on number grade because it’s all about the money what they can get for it when they sell it. It’s a shame....psa has them hooked like a trailer

I know you’re talking about the sad state of the industry in general but if the sale of cards is never about the money in any measure, I’d be interested in buying your cards.

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I know you're showing the area 'missing' the gloss, but the picture makes it confusing, as it looks like there is paper loss there. Can you post a picture where we can see what the card 'really' looks like overall? In other words, not in a way/angle intended to show a lack of gloss in a specific area, but what the card actually looks like in hand?

That’s fair. Let me see if I can get you a different angle. The problem is that the above picture was taken to show me how that corner looks at an angle, to highlight the damage. I don’t actually know how the card looks in hand so I couldn’t tell you whether the above picture is more accurate than the one coming up.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by RiceBondsMntna2Young

I know you’re talking about the sad state of the industry in general but if the sale of cards is never about the money in any measure, I’d be interested in buying your cards.

You’re late to the sale.... the graded... they’re all gone.
I don’t begrudge anyone for wanting to make money/profit on their cards. I, just replying to why I believe people are hung up on the number grade.
.

[perezfan]

Since the card is also trimmed, WTF does it matter what a hypothetical number grade would be? That's the part I take issue with. The card is an "A" regardless... case closed.

The only real reason (IMO) that someone would care about a hypothetical number is for the prospect of buying it, and later trying to re-grade or pass it off as a numerically graded card.

And if this is really what the TPGs have "done right" (according to the OP), it might take an eternity to dig into everything they've done wrong.

[RiceBondsMntna2Young]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Since the card is also trimmed, WTF does it matter what a hypothetical number grade would be? That's the part I take issue with. The card is an "A" regardless... case closed.

The only real reason (IMO) that someone would care about a hypothetical number is for the prospect of buying it, and later trying to re-grade or pass it off as a numerically graded card.

And if this is really what the TPGs have "done right" (according to the OP), it might take an eternity to dig into everything they've done wrong.

Well, I mean, I'm trying to buy it. And I don't know how much to pay for it because not all Altered cards are created equal, right? Isn't that your larger point after all, to buy the card, not the letter or number designation? What do I ground my offer in then? Or do I just take the average sale price of an Altered example to the seller and say take it or leave it. It presents better than average imo and it wouldn't be fair to him. So much cynicism these days...I get it, I'm right there, but I really wonder what some of these negotiations these days look like. I imagine a lot of arm-crossing and pouting with a tinge of snorting.

Also, way to twist my point about the utility of a numerical grading system in theory into a defense of how the TPGs actually behave on the hobby. I will say, I'm not sure I see this level of paranoia as helping to make this hobby any better than Mastro and company.