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#1
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Name 3 HOF'ers you don't think belong
A companion piece to the the thread where we named the 3 guys we think most belong in the hall who have yet to get elected. i want to know the 3 guys in who you think didn't deserve it! (try to keep it more modern as i know many of the dead ball era guys got in for reasons more about nostalgia than statistics)
1- Jim Rice - counting stats are good but not great, WAR makes him only the 76th best OF'er all time. If he had played for Cleveland he would have never even been considered. He also presents a problem because so many modern guys rank above him (Berkman, Andruw Jones, Beltran) in stats and WAR that how do you keep them out yet rationalize Rice in? 2-Phil Rizzuto- should be in for broadcasting, but not for playing. in WAR he ranks 26th in the live ball era, posted a career 96 wRC+ and a .706 OPS. Good solid player, but not a HOF'er 3- Bill Mazeroski- mediocre hitter, great glove, but not a great enough player to be in the HOF. in more for that one HR and for making the right friends on the veteran's committee.
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."- Tom Waits |
#2
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Schoendienst
Slaughter Kell |
#3
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Blyleven
Maz Bowie Kuhn |
#4
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Sutter
Gordon Maranville Tinker oops exceeded my limit |
#5
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Jim Rice
Ron Santo You can have my extra spot Peter. Last edited by bobbyw8469; 06-14-2016 at 02:37 PM. |
#6
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Grimes
Lyons Tinker |
#7
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Lindstrom and Hafey.
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#8
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Jim Rice, Bill Mazeroski, Andre Dawson
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk |
#9
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my 3
Dick Williams
Red Schoendienst George Kell As for the argument the last 3 outs aren't more important i could not disagree more. like closing out a series is tougher than winning one game so is closing out a game easier than a regular inning. Pressure does exist even for elite athletes. Last edited by glynparson; 06-15-2016 at 10:29 AM. |
#10
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Ill just argue for one. Sandy Koufax. Depending on how you look at it he had 5-6 really good seasons, 4 of which were out of this world. He did this during an era where pitchers started to dominate. No doubt he was better than many pitchers from that era in the hof (including teammates like Drysdale and Sutton), but I don't think that being the best for five years is good enough. To me his numbers look like Ron Guidry's. Anyone arguing for his induction?
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#11
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Guidry v Koufax
Ron had a better stretch than many think but it wasn't up to the stretch Koufax had IMHO.
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#12
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Gooden had a great stretch to start his career too. Koufax only won 20 three times.
Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-15-2016 at 11:40 AM. |
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Quote:
plus 54.5 WAR in only a little over 10 year career is pretty damned impressive stuff
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."- Tom Waits |
#14
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Quote:
Quote:
Out of the 18,444 players to play a major league game less than 160 have a career spanning at least 20 years. And not even all of those guys are considered HOF players. Since EVERY single player is better than I ever was I have now decided I would not decide that any player should not be in the HOF.
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/bn2cardz/albums |
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Quote:
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."- Tom Waits |
#16
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He isn't usually mentioned in these discussions, but Newhouser does not seem too impressive at first blush.
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#17
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Quote:
My point was that if someone gets an honor for doing a job that very few people even have the ability to maintain then I am not going to come along and say they don't deserve the honor. If I got an honor at work of let's say "Employee of the year" (not really a thing at my job, just using it for an example), then I wouldn't really be happy if people from outside my industry started to say I didn't deserve it. Just let me have the honor and move on. I don't mind trying to say you believe someone else deserves the honor, but I don't like trying to second guess someone else's decision to bestow an honor on someone else after the fact. I love looking over player stats and researching them. But trying to say someone is worse than what others think seems like a negative approach to the conversation.
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/bn2cardz/albums |
#18
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Ozzie
Expect to get some heat for this, but I felt the same way about his election as I did Maz'. Maz' only HOF credential was a HR in the '60 WS. With Ozzie, great acrobatic shortstop, but the poster boy for, "good field / no hit." Being a one-trick pony ballplayer shouldn't get you in the HOF. It's why Edgar Martinez should never be in. Career DH and he's a HOF candidate? WTF?
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#19
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I just don't get the line of thinking many have about the Hall; the guys that put runs on the board for their team....do they have a bigger impact on winning than the guys who help their team keep runs off the board? A hitter comes to the plate four, maybe five times a game. A defender is out there for nine innings, and at any moment, the ball could be screaming in their direction. Maz had 11,863 defensive chances at second base. He turned 1,706 double plays. How many hits, or runs, did he prevent with his glove?
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#20
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Quote:
Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-20-2016 at 05:10 AM. |
#21
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Quote:
If you make the HOF mean less by letting in lesser players, the "honor" as you put it, becomes less meaningful.
__________________
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."- Tom Waits |
#22
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Rizzuto
Santo Sutter |
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