|
#1
|
||||
|
||||
HOF results
Griffey and Piazza were elected. Griffey set a new record with 99% of the votes, breaking the record held by Tom Seaver. As a lifelong Seaver fan, I'm saddened.
|
#2
|
||||
|
||||
Begs the question...who are the three asses that left Griffey off and why?
Joshua |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I never really understood all the hoopla over %. You're in youre in right? I think how many years it takes is more important to a players legacy. |
#4
|
||||
|
||||
+1
__________________
Looking for'47-'66 Exhibits and any Carl Furillo,Rocky Colavito and Johnny Callison stuff. |
#5
|
||||
|
||||
I'm saddened because it was just nice to be able to say that my favorite player held the all time record for HOF votes. No big deal though.
If I remember correctly, 4 guys didn't vote for Seaver. Two were protesting Pete Rose being left off the ballot. One was sick in the hospital and mismarked his ballot. And one always voted no for first year players just to ensure that no one ever was a unanimous selection. I wonder if there are similar stories for the three no votes for Griffey. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
HOF Voting
Quote:
JoeT Last edited by Vintageclout; 01-06-2016 at 04:32 PM. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
HOF Voting
Quote:
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
I guess im biased since im from seattle but griffey deserves 100% imo
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
+1 Joshua, totally agree...
|
#10
|
||||
|
||||
I grew up watching Griffey. I think it should of been 100% for sure
__________________
SELLING 1934 GOUDEY PARTIAL SET---CHECK OUT THE THREAD IN B/S/T |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Probably the same 3 that voted for Mike Sweeney.
|
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Here is a plausible explanation. They wanted to vote for 11 guys but were limited to 10. If I was in that situation I could see leaving off the guy (Griffey) that was getting in no matter what I did.
|
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Anybody that doesn't vote for someone just because they "never vote people on first ballot" deserve the honor of voting revoked.
Last edited by timber63401; 01-06-2016 at 05:12 PM. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
First of all, the reason the three guys left off Griffey probably was because of someone getting hurt feelings on something as stupid as an interview where there were hurt feelings. Maybe someone didn't like the way Griffey treated him. In other words, someone getting pissed off and telling their other writer buddies. Maybe one of them agreed. Yes, human nature does come into the equation ( even though it shouldn't). Secondly, I look at Griffey from the time he was an 18yr old rookie to the time he retired, he basically had the same physical structure and abilities. Then I look at guys like McGwire, Bonds, and Sosa. Please.....Go back to their early photos and then look at how they ballooned up later in their careers. It's borderline ridiculous, and so obvious as well. Griffey was clean, and had the best swing ever in the game with maybe Ted W. getting a close argument. If he had not had the serious injuries, he would have hit 800 home runs. Just my opinion....
Last edited by CMIZ5290; 01-06-2016 at 05:28 PM. |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
I think it's a joke that Piazza got in. He was a liability behind the plate. The most important part of a catcher's game is on defense.
|
#16
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
All the cool kids love my YouTube Channel:
Elm's Adventures in Cardboard Land https://www.youtube.com/@TheJollyElm Looking to trade? Here's my bucket: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706 “I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.” Casey Stengel Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s. Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow. |
#17
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I think Kent will eventually be voted in by the Veterans Committee, and I don't really have a problem with that approach. Personally, I still don't believe PED users should get into the HOF. Their numbers aren't "real" numbers. People argue that they were competing against other PED users so those stats were legit. However, to me, it's like Lance Armstrong and the Tour de France. You can say that he was competing against other users on the Tour, so you shouldn't strip him of his titles? That doesn't make sense to me. The Hall honors the best players, and you can't really say you deserve to be one of the best if you cheated your way there. |
#18
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
All the cool kids love my YouTube Channel:
Elm's Adventures in Cardboard Land https://www.youtube.com/@TheJollyElm Looking to trade? Here's my bucket: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706 “I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.” Casey Stengel Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s. Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow. |
#19
|
||||
|
||||
Well, there's probably already a few in.
__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! |
#20
|
||||
|
||||
Griffey was a great player but he was no Tom Seaver when it comes to HOF players. Of course they weren't apples to apples as on was a pitcher and the other an outfielder so I guess there were other criteria to be evaluated.
__________________
Favorite MLB quote. " I knew we could find a place to hide you". Lee Smith talking about my catching abilities at Cubs Fantasy camp. Last edited by kmac32; 01-06-2016 at 06:57 PM. |
#21
|
||||
|
||||
3 Voters Identities Revealed:
Reliable sources indicate a strong possibility that two of the three voters who did not vote for Griffey are brothers: Moe and Curly. The third voter goes by Larry.
I was happy to see that one of my favorite players, David Eckstein, got two votes...but, I hope those two votes did not come at Griffey's expense. Like Jayson Stark, I would have had Billy Wagner (another of my favorites) as one of my full ballot of ten. (check out Starks comments from this morning on ESPN.com) Good to see Trevor Hoffman get so much support in his first year. I think with Piazza getting in, Bagwell should get in next year, then perhaps Sheffield and even Bonds and Clemens and Sosa. I'm not yet accepting of those last few getting in but the Commissioner made a good, sound argument as to why they should get in. The same reasoning would keep out Palmeiro, McGwire, and Manny Ramirez since they have actually been caught in the act. . .
__________________
. "A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson “If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente Last edited by clydepepper; 01-06-2016 at 07:04 PM. |
#22
|
||||
|
||||
Because in context, he just wasn't a HOF caliber player. Those numbers were in an era of huge numbers.
Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-06-2016 at 07:10 PM. |
#23
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#24
|
||||
|
||||
However, if the other players producing those numbers were roiders, and Kent wasn't, wouldn't that mean something? I've never heard of Kent being tainted by roid rumors, so I assume he's clean. Like McGriff, I think this is another place where PED users hurt legitimate players because their stats get lost in the forest.
|
#25
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
Favorite MLB quote. " I knew we could find a place to hide you". Lee Smith talking about my catching abilities at Cubs Fantasy camp. |
#26
|
||||
|
||||
In context, Peter??? What the hell other second baseman produced as many runs as him year after year? And according to your logic, since it was the era of 'huge numbers,' why were Piazza and Griffey elected?? They, too, played in the same era as Kent.
__________________
All the cool kids love my YouTube Channel:
Elm's Adventures in Cardboard Land https://www.youtube.com/@TheJollyElm Looking to trade? Here's my bucket: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706 “I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.” Casey Stengel Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s. Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Collecting Canadian related baseball cards: N172, Obak, 1936 WWG. Obaks: 33/40 (need 1910 Vancouver: Brown, James, and Jensen; 1911 Vancouver: Lewis; 1911 Victoria Million ) 1936 WWG: 32/135 1952 Parkhurst: 59/100 Last edited by veloce; 01-06-2016 at 07:26 PM. |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Ken Griffey Jr is right up there with seaver.
|
#29
|
||||
|
||||
Well, since to date he is only getting 15 percent of the vote, sounds like you have your work cut out for you to convince people that that is the relevant criterion, to be the leading run producer at a given position. FWIW JAWS has him at 18th all time second baseman. Piazza is 5th at catcher. Griffey is 5th in center.
Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-06-2016 at 08:08 PM. |
#30
|
||||
|
||||
Griffey is #4 all time in the NON Steroids Home Run Category, and was the best defensive CF of an entire generation, while playing for mostly bad teams.
Yeah...I guess he wasn't better than Seaver... |
#31
|
||||
|
||||
I would say not quite. Seaver is a top 10 all time pitcher. Griffey is probably more in the top 25 than top 10 tier.
|
#32
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-06-2016 at 08:14 PM. |
#33
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
All the cool kids love my YouTube Channel:
Elm's Adventures in Cardboard Land https://www.youtube.com/@TheJollyElm Looking to trade? Here's my bucket: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706 “I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.” Casey Stengel Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s. Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow. |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
Griffey was a monster. I'd say he's top 10. Elite defense, elite hitter, the prettiest swing you ever saw. Had a real shot at breaking Aaron's record if not for getting hurt.
Last edited by packs; 01-06-2016 at 08:20 PM. |
#35
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#36
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Hall Of Fame StatisticsPlayer rank in (·) Black Ink Batting - 26 (73), Average HOFer ≈ 27 Gray Ink Batting - 162 (71), Average HOFer ≈ 144 Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 235 (29), Likely HOFer ≈ 100 Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 61 (28), Average HOFer ≈ 50 |
#37
|
|||
|
|||
HOF Voting
Quote:
JoeT |
#38
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#39
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Tom C |
#40
|
||||
|
||||
Yeah, although I don't think contemporaneously he was considered a superstar, Grich rates as the number 7 all time second baseman by the JAWS metric. He's ahead of Sandberg and Alomar and Biggio, and just behind Carew, which I really can't figure out. Must be one of those era adjusted phenomena.
Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-06-2016 at 09:37 PM. |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
HOF Voting
LOL - I totally agree....not even close Peter. Nolan Ryan was NEVER the equal of Tom Seaver. Post WWII, Combination peak value and career, only Maddux and Randy Johnson rate with Seaver. Pedro Martinez doesn't have the same longevity, Koufax was a 4/5 year pitcher and Clemens was a cheater. Here's a Seaver stat that is absolutely remarkable. Over the first 15 consecutive seasons of his career, Seaver posted a 2.62 ERA, an incredible feat considering he averaged approximately 252 IP per season over that span!
|
#42
|
||||
|
||||
Yeah, Reggie really said it best, didn't he.
|
#43
|
||||
|
||||
So, you ignored my question about you changing stats to fit your narrative, and you ask me if I EVEN KNOW how WAR works? Are you serious?? Kent has a .290 lifetime average, is the all-time HR leader for second baseman and is what, 3rd or 4th in career RBI's for the position? Those are actual stats. And we were all around to watch him play. His career wasn't something so long ago in the past that we have to develop a stat like WAR to figure out if he was good or not. He was a monster at second base and the guy belongs in the Hall of Fame.
__________________
All the cool kids love my YouTube Channel:
Elm's Adventures in Cardboard Land https://www.youtube.com/@TheJollyElm Looking to trade? Here's my bucket: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706 “I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.” Casey Stengel Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s. Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow. |
#44
|
||||
|
||||
Did not say that Griffey didn't belong in the Hall of Fame. What I basically said is that in his era, Seaver was in a league of his own. In the Griffey era, there were quite a few guys that could hit the ball and field so when you look at his peers, he was awesome but some other players had almost as much value. Also keep in mind that many of Griffey's peers were steroid users so it is harder to judge his class of position players. Seaver did not come from the steroid era so talent was easier to judge.
__________________
Favorite MLB quote. " I knew we could find a place to hide you". Lee Smith talking about my catching abilities at Cubs Fantasy camp. |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
Anyone have thoughts in Mussina jumping up in the voting to 43%? Think he eventually gets there?
Last edited by AddieJoss; 01-06-2016 at 10:39 PM. |
#46
|
||||
|
||||
Lee Smith started there and his % has not change much and even declined a little. Great player but with the way HOF voters do things, I doubt if he will.
__________________
Favorite MLB quote. " I knew we could find a place to hide you". Lee Smith talking about my catching abilities at Cubs Fantasy camp. |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
Mussina has been increasing each year on the ballot....and has a bunch of gold gloves to go with his pitching stats.
|
#48
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#49
|
||||
|
||||
And who is third on the list of all time saves in MLB? Wasn't Sutter or Eckersley last time I checked. Believe the order is Hoffman, Rivera, Smith. Don't see Sutter or Eckersley in the top 5 of the list. Sutter is 26th on the list with 300 saves and Eckersley is 6th with 390 saves. Smith had 478 career saves. The numbers speak for themselves.
__________________
Favorite MLB quote. " I knew we could find a place to hide you". Lee Smith talking about my catching abilities at Cubs Fantasy camp. Last edited by kmac32; 01-06-2016 at 11:45 PM. |
#50
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I think Bagwell, Sheffield and Sosa would get in because while there was only speculation, none ever failed a drug test or were otherwise suspended for same. Palmeiro, Ramirez, and Rodriguez were all suspended for PEDs, while McGwire got caught with some in his locker (funny how he never got charged for anything, but the known presence of the stuff in his locker put him in this group). I think McGwire skated at the time because, admit it, we were all caught up in that HR race. I was really more offended by his lying to the Maris family. Bonds and Clemens are a more difficult discussion: Both were arguably the best players at their position well before 'strange things' started showing up. Neither was ever convicted of using PEDs, although if you want to believe in such, no one would be better prepared to have the finest 'masking' product available. . .
__________________
. "A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson “If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
REA results | Tomman1961 | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 5 | 06-04-2013 08:56 AM |
New results from PSA | Brianruns10 | Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) | 2 | 07-27-2012 03:57 PM |
PSA --> SGC Crossover Results | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 11 | 05-07-2008 06:36 PM |
results - SGC to PSA | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 15 | 11-15-2007 06:27 PM |
HOF Results | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 86 | 01-11-2007 05:15 PM |