Your top 3 non HOFers

[rats60]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

RBI's is not a very good number to use for player's individual performance because it s driven by the quality of the player's who bat in front of him. 3 guys can have equal offensive production but vary greatly in RBI because one guy played for a good offensive team and the others didn't.

not trying to start a SABER war, but I think RBI is like pitcher wins, it's just too contingent on the performance of other people to be treated as if it is the product of the individual.

Well will just have to agree to disagree then because I strongly disagree with your whole post. The player has to drive in those runs. I would rather have a player like Hodges than some guy who walks a lot and has an inflated obp, but doesn't produce. I wouldn't penalize a guy who played on a bad team and didn't have opportunities to drive in runs. However, you have to give Hodges credit for taking advantage of his opportunities and driving in those runs that led to wins.

As far as pitching wins, after era it is the most important stat. After all the idea of the game is the score the most runs/allow the fewest runs and win games. Have a good fip, whip, bb/k ratio, etc. are all fine, but in the end may be meaningless to the result of this game. Some people act like this game is played in a vacuum. They ignore that valid strategies of the game harm those prized sabr stats but produce wins. Things like pitching around hitters in situations or pitching to the score of the game. Also, to complain that a pitcher's bullpen can't hold a lead when the pitcher is partially at fault because he wasn't able to finish the game is silly in my opinion.