Your top 3 non HOFers

[KingFisk]

Would love to get Bill Gregory's thoughts on Larry Walker if he had a minute to spare. I always thought he was unfairly dinged for the Coors effect and his injury issues. I don't think there were too many more complete players than Walker. I am sure there are some good analyses online but always enjoy seeing our resident expert opine.

[glynparson]

Garvey
Madlock
Raines

[Rookiemonster]

fred mcgrif
Larry Doyle
Jim Katt

[David W]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

fred mcgrif
Larry Doyle
Jim Katt

Fred McGriff and Harold Baines would be Hall of Famers by hitting magic milestones of 500 HR for McGriff and 3000 hits and 400 HR for Baines were it not for the players strikes.

1981, 1994-95 for Baines

1994-95 for McGriff

Baines had his debut in 1980, then the strike in 81 cost him half the season.
He missed good time due to the strike of 94 and another 20 games in 95 after it was settled. He ended up 134 its away from 3000 and 12 HR from 400.

McGriff ended with 493 HR, and was on a tear in 94, hitting 34 in 113 games, he surely would have had another 7.

[jhowie]

Dwight Evans
Fred McGriff
Tim Raines

[Dewey]

First two came to mind quickly: Hodges and Garvey. Then I read first post and saw both names there. Great minds .

I'll add Alan Trammell for my #3. Now to read the thread!

Edit - Like the Larry Walker add. What a player when healthy.

[Batter67up]

Gil Hodges

He should be in but Ted Williams kept him out, as head of the Veterans Committee in 90's Williams kept him out. Ted hosted the vote at his house and Hodges needed one more vote. Campanella who was at the hospital because of his health called Williams and said that he voted for Hodges. Williams told Campanella that unless he was there in person he wasn't counting his vote and hung up. Hodges didn't make it in thanks to Williams who had something personal against Hodges. Ted definitely lives up to his reputation of being an A Hole.

PS: Campy died shortly after that because of his 40 years of being paralized. I guess that wasn't an excuse for not being there in person.

[Tripredacus]

I always think of Trammell and Whitaker. What do you think about Julio Franco?

[the 'stache]

Really interesting topic, Peter, and one that I'll have a lot to say about later this evening. If I didn't need to get some sleep before my doctor's appointment this afternoon, I'd delve into my spreadsheets now.

While I'll give serious thought to the second and third player, one stands out to me, immediately. And his name is set in stone.

1. Dick Allen.

I don't care if he had an adversarial relationship with the press, or that he was a below-average fielder. He's one of the truly elite power hitters in the history of the game, and barring knowledge of some unknown tidbit that's excluded him from induction, I would have to say his exclusion from Cooperstown is one of the great oversights in Major League history.

For his career, he had an OPS + of 156. To put that in historical context, first, looking at all Major League hitters from 1901 to present, with more that 4,000 or more career at bats, Allen's OPS + is the 17th highest. 17th out of 1,072 batters who qualified. His career OPS + is the same as Frank Thomas and Willie Mays; it's one point higher than the career mark of Hank Aaron, Joe DiMaggio and Mel Ott.

While historical context is always great fun to look at, I think a more accurate measurement would be the same metric compared against his peer group; those men who played within the same era Allen did. Dick Allen played between 1963 and 1977. Fifteen years. I looked at all Major League players with over 2,000 at bats between 1963 and 1977. Allen's 156 OPS + is the third-highest over that period of time; only Mickey Mantle (OPS + of 159) and Frank Robinson (OPS + of 157) had a higher mark. Ans, Mantle barely qualified, only having 2,206 at bats.

When you look at the names of those who fall on the list under Allen: Hank Aaron, Willie McCovey, Willie Mays, Reggie Jackson, Willie Stargell, Roberto Clemente, Frank Howard, Harmon Killebrew, Mike Schmidt....and more Hall of Famers follow them...how can Allen not be inducted? From '63 to '71, he had a 160 OPS + in the National League. He moved to the American League in 1972, and played for the Chicago White Sox. Seeing a bunch of pitchers he'd never faced, Allen destroyed the ball, putting up a career best 199 OPS +, winning the A.L. MVP in the process. He led the league with a 1.029 OPS. How much did he dominate the A.L.? The second-best OPS was Carton Fisk's .909, 120 points lower.

Originally Posted by KingFisk

Would love to get Bill Gregory's thoughts on Larry Walker if he had a minute to spare. I always thought he was unfairly dinged for the Coors effect and his injury issues. I don't think there were too many more complete players than Walker. I am sure there are some good analyses online but always enjoy seeing our resident expert opine.

Hi Carl. I'll break his numbers down in depth tonight, but the short answer is I think Walker was a fantastic player, and while his numbers clearly did benefit from playing at Coors Field (and there was some real variance in his home-road splits from one year to another), he was still a real offensive threat on the road, too. People forget he was an MVP candidate before he ever left Montreal. He hit .322 with a .981 OPS his last year with the Expos.

Larry Walker was a great all around baseball player. The man won seven Gold Gloves, hit 383 home runs, stole 230 bases, and hit .313 for his career.