Joseph M Pankiewicz, you are a disgrace to this hobby!

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They had this provision on the coin side for some time -- was the basis for a lawsuit that quick research shows was filed but never actually served.

http://www.coinlink.com/News/pdf/CU_vs_Coin_doctors.pdf

As I recall the judge threw out the case for a number of reasons. One reason was several of the defendants were from California, so the Federal court had no jurisdiction. As for the rest, as I recall, the judge threw it out because it basically amounted to CU suing it's dealers for damages incurred for CU's own incompetence. It should be on PACER.GOV.

[ajg]

Far above Cayuga's waters class of 1984

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by ajg

Far above Cayuga's waters class of 1984

"Blackbird" The Beatles, class of 68

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

As I recall the judge threw out the case for a number of reasons. One reason was several of the defendants were from California, so the Federal court had no jurisdiction. As for the rest, as I recall, the judge threw it out because it basically amounted to CU suing it's dealers for damages incurred for CU's own incompetence. It should be on PACER.GOV.

Dan it was a Lanham Act suit diversity or not would have no relevance to a federal question case.

This article suggests the suit was never served.

http://www.coinworld.com/articles/de...erse-attorneys

[barrysloate]

Scariest thing about the coin doctoring is the surfaces are smoothed using a laser. Wouldn't that be virtually impossible to detect?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Scariest thing about the coin doctoring is the surfaces are smoothed using a laser. Wouldn't that be virtually impossible to detect?

With enough magnification ? No.

With the usual 10X magnifier? Yes.

I've seen only one altered coin that I know of, and it was done well before the laser stuff. Added mintmark, not really obvious, but it also didn't look right either. The dealer whose shop I hung out at had just taken it back, having sold it 15+ years earlier. (It failed TPG when the buyer wanted to sell)
Easy return too, basically a "Hey, that coin I bought a long time ago turned out to be altered" "Really? Do you have it with you?" "Yes, here it is" "Jeez how did I miss that? How much did you pay? I seem to remember $X" "Yeah, that sounds about right" " Is a check ok" - Not even a question of whether he'd take it back. He used it as an example of what to look for for a while, last I saw it it was in a cardboard 2x2 holder with a lot of writing describing the alteration and a couple big red stripes. It probably found it's way to the smelter eventually.

That's one of the reasons I still visit and buy stuff from him. No drama, even when there's a problem.

Steve B



Steve B

[HOF Auto Rookies]

I wish I could get some bumps in my cards I got some signed at the National and graded on the spot, and they came back lower than the pre-signed slab...just my luck

[barrysloate]

Steve- you should be able to detect an added mintmark pretty easily. But a laser that simply smoothed light scratches out of the surface of a coin could be a whole lot tougher.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Steve- you should be able to detect an added mintmark pretty easily. But a laser that simply smoothed light scratches out of the surface of a coin could be a whole lot tougher.

Yes, it's harder. But I read an article on how they detect it, and it's a matter of the flow of the metal being different between coining where the flow is generally out from the center, and the laser which just melts the high spots.

Under 10x it might not be visible, but much higher magnification makes the flow lines and grain structure of the metal visible.

Still pretty worrisome for anyone buying an expensive coin that's not graded, or that was graded earlier.


And yes, the added mintmark was pretty easy to spot. Typical solder job with the coin roughed up a bit in that area then polished and slightly re-tarnished. It was a Half too, a 1921-D. Not high grade, Maybe fine.

Steve B