Will the new Heritage and REA tobacco finds impact the market?

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Leon

Exceptional provenance brings exceptional prices.
.

+1. I think vintage collectors do care (often a lot) about provenance, especially when the card is rare. For example, there can be little doubt that Charlie Sheen and Joe Garagiola’s T206 Wagners sold for a premium bc of prior ownership. Yes, I understand t206 Wagners are special, but the same attitude applies down the number line- most vintage collectors would like to know the chain of ownership on cards and would likely pay a premium for cards with an identifiable chain of ownership and/or for items that come from prestigious collections/collectors.

[anchorednw]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

...an identifiable chain of ownership and/or for items that come from prestigious collections/collectors.

Does this mean you are opening up the vaults for us? (Fingers crossed)

[MVSNYC]

Ryan and I have spoken about this prior...here's my feelings on provenance.

In the world of memorabilia (Game Used Bats, Uniforms, Gloves, etc). Provenance is very important. Chain of ownership is very important. And photo-matching is even more important...it's king. Placing that item in the player's hands is paramount in establishing authenticity and value.

In the world of cards, IMO, provenance adds a cute, even "cool" narrative to the story, BUT if it's authenticated by PSA or SGC that story becomes less relevant and important. Value is almost mostly tied to if it's authentic and grade/condition.

Where it's different, as noted in Ryan's examples, is CELEBRITY ownership. That does increase an item's value, totally.

Edited to add: For the record, I do agree with Ryan, where an item coming from a prestigious collection can add some value. That can add more value versus an item from an attic find named after someone's Uncle.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Ryan and I have spoken about this prior...here's my feelings on provenance.

In the world of memorabilia (Game Used Bats, Uniforms, Gloves, etc). Provenance is very important. Chain of ownership is very important. And photo-matching is even more important...it's king. Placing that item in the player's hands is paramount in establishing authenticity and value.

In the world of cards, IMO, provenance adds a cute, even "cool" narrative to the story, BUT if it's authenticated by PSA or SGC that story becomes less relevant and important. Value is almost mostly tied to if it's authentic and grade/condition.

Where it's different, as noted in Ryan's examples, is CELEBRITY ownership. That does increase an item's value, totally.

Edited to add: For the record, I do agree with Ryan, where an item coming from a prestigious collection can add some value. That can add more value versus an item from an attic find named after someone's Uncle.

I would pay more for these cards because I know who first collected them. I am the 2nd "family" to own them since they were collected by the gentleman's grandfather. They came from the T206s that were auctioned on the front page, for several months. They are still raw but will find themsleves in CGC holders eventually. Some of the authenticators do a horrible job, imo, so take grades from them with a grain of salt. I don't collect numbers on plastic though.

[MVSNYC]

Leon, we don't have to agree on everything (although we usually do).

I wouldn't pay more for these because the originally owner/family is known. Again, cool story, but I wouldn't pay a premium for that story.

BTW, very nice T206s.

[darwinbulldog]

I think the effect will be pretty negligible. You'd be hard pressed to find anything from 1910 that's more common than T206s.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Leon, we don't have to agree on everything (although we usually do).

I wouldn't pay more for these because the originally owner/family is known. Again, cool story, but I wouldn't pay a premium for that story.

BTW, very nice T206s.

It would be a very small premium, but one nonetheless. It's always ok to agree to disagree on things, otherwise we would just be nodding heads LOL...

And to answer the original question, I don't think the finds move prices.

.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

+1. I think vintage collectors do care (often a lot) about provenance, especially when the card is rare. For example, there can be little doubt that Charlie Sheen and Joe Garagiola’s T206 Wagners sold for a premium bc of prior ownership. Yes, I understand t206 Wagners are special, but the same attitude applies down the number line- most vintage collectors would like to know the chain of ownership on cards and would likely pay a premium for cards with an identifiable chain of ownership and/or for items that come from prestigious collections/collectors.

There is a huge difference in my mind between provenance and some fanciful story about how someone found a miraculous box of 125 year old cards supposedly in a barn attic when they moved something.

Maybe the writers of auction catalog stories are the last completely honest folks in the industry.