Will the new Heritage and REA tobacco finds impact the market?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Fred

It would be really nice if Heritage did a full accounting of all cards and cataloged it all for hobbyist to see. A back story about where the original collector grew up and how the cards came to the market would be interesting and possibly draw a little more attention to them.

I would love to see AHs do stuff like this. Do collectors care enough about these things, though? So many of them just seem to care about the number on the slab and not much else...

[raulus]

I’m always a little wary about groupthink, particularly when our thinking is largely self-reinforcing, but I’m inclined to agree that the T206 supply is just so huge and the demand is so deep that these finds will be a drop in the ocean.

Open any recent major auction catalog (or electronic version), and you have to wade through a sea of T206s. These finds just aren’t big enough to move the needle on an existing supply that is already so gigantic.

I suppose if these finds included a gigantic increase in the supply of rare pieces by adding 1,000 Wagners, Doyle errors, or brown Lenox cards then we could talk about a serious market impact. But this isn’t it.

[G1911]

A small fraction of a percent population increase is obviously not going to change anything.

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by G1911

A small fraction of a percent population increase is obviously not going to change anything.

This.

[butchie_t]

Find me any T-206’s with 1988 Topps prices and I’ll buy’em all.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I would love to see AHs do stuff like this. Do collectors care enough about these things, though? So many of them just seem to care about the number on the slab and not much else...

No, effectively, nobody cares.

I had a rare Lebron James & Michael Jordan dual auto Lebron RC that I consigned last year. I also had the original pack of was pulled from and the cards that were in that pack along with the story of which card shop in Florida it was pulled from. Heritage said to just send the card and to throw the rest away.

[Schlesinj]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I would love to see AHs do stuff like this. Do collectors care enough about these things, though? So many of them just seem to care about the number on the slab and not much else...

I think narrative matters.

The Uncle Jimmy Story is an example that brought a large premium and the average or dormant collector came came out and spent money. Me being one of those.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

I think narrative matters.

The Uncle Jimmy Story is an example that brought a large premium and the average or dormant collector came came out and spent money. Me being one of those.

I think a lot of the narratives are exaggerations or compete bs. No one ever says my uncle took them from an old lady down the street whose husband dutiful collected them for decades but dropped dead on his way to the office one morning.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I think a lot of the narratives are exaggerations or compete bs. No one ever says my uncle took them from an old lady down the street whose husband dutiful collected them for decades but dropped dead on his way to the office one morning.

I politely disagree. Exceptional provenance brings exceptional prices.
.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Leon

Exceptional provenance brings exceptional prices.
.

+1. I think vintage collectors do care (often a lot) about provenance, especially when the card is rare. For example, there can be little doubt that Charlie Sheen and Joe Garagiola’s T206 Wagners sold for a premium bc of prior ownership. Yes, I understand t206 Wagners are special, but the same attitude applies down the number line- most vintage collectors would like to know the chain of ownership on cards and would likely pay a premium for cards with an identifiable chain of ownership and/or for items that come from prestigious collections/collectors.

[anchorednw]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

...an identifiable chain of ownership and/or for items that come from prestigious collections/collectors.

Does this mean you are opening up the vaults for us? (Fingers crossed)

[MVSNYC]

Ryan and I have spoken about this prior...here's my feelings on provenance.

In the world of memorabilia (Game Used Bats, Uniforms, Gloves, etc). Provenance is very important. Chain of ownership is very important. And photo-matching is even more important...it's king. Placing that item in the player's hands is paramount in establishing authenticity and value.

In the world of cards, IMO, provenance adds a cute, even "cool" narrative to the story, BUT if it's authenticated by PSA or SGC that story becomes less relevant and important. Value is almost mostly tied to if it's authentic and grade/condition.

Where it's different, as noted in Ryan's examples, is CELEBRITY ownership. That does increase an item's value, totally.

Edited to add: For the record, I do agree with Ryan, where an item coming from a prestigious collection can add some value. That can add more value versus an item from an attic find named after someone's Uncle.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Ryan and I have spoken about this prior...here's my feelings on provenance.

In the world of memorabilia (Game Used Bats, Uniforms, Gloves, etc). Provenance is very important. Chain of ownership is very important. And photo-matching is even more important...it's king. Placing that item in the player's hands is paramount in establishing authenticity and value.

In the world of cards, IMO, provenance adds a cute, even "cool" narrative to the story, BUT if it's authenticated by PSA or SGC that story becomes less relevant and important. Value is almost mostly tied to if it's authentic and grade/condition.

Where it's different, as noted in Ryan's examples, is CELEBRITY ownership. That does increase an item's value, totally.

Edited to add: For the record, I do agree with Ryan, where an item coming from a prestigious collection can add some value. That can add more value versus an item from an attic find named after someone's Uncle.

I would pay more for these cards because I know who first collected them. I am the 2nd "family" to own them since they were collected by the gentleman's grandfather. They came from the T206s that were auctioned on the front page, for several months. They are still raw but will find themsleves in CGC holders eventually. Some of the authenticators do a horrible job, imo, so take grades from them with a grain of salt. I don't collect numbers on plastic though.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

+1. I think vintage collectors do care (often a lot) about provenance, especially when the card is rare. For example, there can be little doubt that Charlie Sheen and Joe Garagiola’s T206 Wagners sold for a premium bc of prior ownership. Yes, I understand t206 Wagners are special, but the same attitude applies down the number line- most vintage collectors would like to know the chain of ownership on cards and would likely pay a premium for cards with an identifiable chain of ownership and/or for items that come from prestigious collections/collectors.

There is a huge difference in my mind between provenance and some fanciful story about how someone found a miraculous box of 125 year old cards supposedly in a barn attic when they moved something.

Maybe the writers of auction catalog stories are the last completely honest folks in the industry.