A case for the timeline of the T213-1 (COUPON) set

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I haven't had my 2nd coffee yet this AM....but, I'm not sure I fully understand the gist of what your last post said.

Can you give an example of this ?


TED Z

Ted:

T206 was issued essentially from the end of summer 1909 through the late spring of 1911 and I'm just wondering if the ATC had periods where T206 were not the pack inserts but some other card was. Not sure I've seen anyone comment on that before.

I'm also curious about the T206 captions-they always seemed "machined" to me, much like the theory on the blue captions I guess, i.e. they look like they could have been added after the card images were printed. I believe the T206 theory on captions is they were part of the brown ink pass but if so, would not the blue captioned cards look strange if the brown pass was skipped in say T213-2? I guess I'm trying to reconcile the pre-printed fronts with out brown captions being used for the later sets.

I wonder if the post ATC breakup issues did not use unprinted front inventory from T206 but rather they used the elements used to create those cards instead but with the blue captions. Perhaps many of the T206 litho stones had been recycled for other uses and they just used what was still at hand for the Coupons, etc.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Ted:

T206 was issued essentially from the end of summer 1909 through the late spring of 1911 and I'm just wondering if the ATC had periods where T206 were not the pack inserts but some other card was. Not sure I've seen anyone comment on that before.

I'm also curious about the T206 captions-they always seemed "machined" to me, much like the theory on the blue captions I guess, i.e. they look like they could have been added after the card images were printed. I believe the T206 theory on captions is they were part of the brown ink pass but if so, would not the blue captioned cards look strange if the brown pass was skipped in say T213-2? I guess I'm trying to reconcile the pre-printed fronts with out brown captions being used for the later sets.

I wonder if the post ATC breakup issues did not use unprinted front inventory from T206 but rather they used the elements used to create those cards instead but with the blue captions. Perhaps many of the T206 litho stones had been recycled for other uses and they just used what was still at hand for the Coupons, etc.

OK, I hope I have answered your 1st paragraph here in post #16.

Regarding your 2nd paragraph..we have seen blank-back T206's. And, we have seen completely printed "nameless" T206's. Therefore, the
pre-printed fronts without brown captions sounds plausible for even the early production era of the T206's. Now the use of BLUE ink in the
post-1912 era could be because this color pass being the next to last in the printing stage ? ?


TED Z


TED Z

[caramelcard]

Hi Ted,

What about T80 Old Mills? Very hard to find. Any info in those records referring to Old Mill military backs?

Always thought it was interesting that T80 Lenox, Tolstoi and Uzit are relatively easy to find (especially compared to their baseball counterparts), but Old Mills are nearly impossible.


Rob

[tedzan]

If I recall correctly, no reference to the OLD MILL or the CAIRO MONOPOL T80's were in the ALC records.

But, my recollection could be wrong. I'll see if I can dig up that info.


TED Z

[toppcat]

Ted-missed #16 the last time around, looks like you answered my first question quite succinctly-thanks! Gotta think about the blue captions some more but your idea makes sense. I wonder if they no longer had access to whatever they needed for the brown captions in the production process?

[FrankWakefield]

First, I think brown captions on both T206s, T213-1s, and T215-1s are part of the regular printing process, when the frame is printed.

The font for the blue captions on the later T213s and T215s are of a different font. And the blue looks less intense, a bit washed out. Yet the artwork is the same as the successors. I do not think the blue captions were part of the regular blue process. I think the sheets went through a 'captions only' run. I've only been thinking this for a few days, I'd not contemplated it before Ted commenced this thread.

I think that 'adding' captions to the regular blue cycle would have been quite difficult. Removing the brown caption from the brown cycle not that difficult. So I think an extra printing pass for captions only would have been the most practicable way to deal with it.

So I envision a request being made for more cards, the expense discussed, then a fall back to just using the old images and reworking captions as a cost savings for these second quality cigarettes.

[tedzan]

I have amended in my initial post here, regarding the date of the printing of the A-B-C-D cards from April 1910 > June 1910.
I realized that my initial recollection was mistaken when I dug up my records.

However, my story stays the same, and the timeline for the printing of the T213-1 COUPON cards has shifted to June 1910.

Sorry about this, the 20" of snow and a recent layer of ice here in Pennsy must be affecting me


TED Z

[tedzan]

150/350 series Southern Leaguers (16 cards)

Bay................Nashville Volunteers
Bernhard.........Nashville Volunteers
Breitenstein.....New Orleans Pelicans
Carey.............Memphis Turtles
Cranston.........Memphis Turtles
Ellam..............Nashville Volunteers
Fritz...............New Orleans Pelicans
Greminger........Montgomery Climbers
Hickman..........Mobile Sea Gulls
Jordan............Atlanta Crackers
Molesworth......Birmingham Barons
Perdue............Nashville Volunteers
Persons...........Montgomery Climbers
Reagan............New Orleans Pelicans
Smith..............Atlanta Crackers
Thornton.........Mobile Sea Gulls


350-ONLY series Southern Leaguers (4 cards)

Hart................Montgomery Climbers
Hart................Little Rock Travelers
Lentz..............Little Rock Travelers
Rockenfeld.......New Orleans Pelicans


Some interesting tid-bits here......

Ted Breitenstein, in his 1st official Major League start, pitched a No-Hitter on Oct 4th 1891 with St Louis (American Association).
It was a near perfect game, since he faced only 27 batters. He allowed one Walk, which was erased by a Pick-Off play.

Then, approx. 8 years later (Aug 15th 1909) with the Pelicans, Ted pitched another No-Hitter (vs Montgomery).

The following year, the New Orleans Pelicans win the 1910 Southern Association pennant. Shoeless Joe Jackson batted .354......
which greatly contributed to the Pelicans Championship year.






TED Z