1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth in Heritage

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Yikes! Are these yours?

Yes

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Yes

Those cards need the MBA gold bar if you ever want to sell them. That could push them over the top.

[oldjudge]

LOL, they are already over the top. Hi Corey!

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

LOL, they are already over the top. Hi Corey!

But the gold bar!

[oldjudge]

I just looked at the HA listing for this lot. What I found interesting was the estimate of $7 million. I wonder why HA, who in my mind usually estimates high, would have an estimate under the REA realization.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I just looked at the HA listing for this lot. What I found interesting was the estimate of $7 million. I wonder why HA, who in my mind usually estimates high, would have an estimate under the REA realization.

I have found their estimates for the type of stuff I bid on to have pretty low estimates.

[tiger8mush]

Perhaps lower estimates will entice more bidders to participate, giving them a false hope of having a chance of winning.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Perhaps lower estimates will entice more bidders to participate, giving them a false hope of having a chance of winning.

At the 7M+ level, does that strategy really work? No one with that money has false hopes, I don't think. It's all about who has the deepest pockets and wants it the most.

.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Leon

At the 7M+ level, does that strategy really work? No one with that money has false hopes, I don't think. It's all about who has the deepest pockets and wants it the most.

.

Agreed. Cards like that will be the new toys for the fraction of the 1% with more disposable income than I would see in 10 lifetimes.

[Jobu]

Very nice Corey! Do you mind sharing the story behind both of those?

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Two more

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Leon

At the 7M+ level, does that strategy really work? No one with that money has false hopes, I don't think. It's all about who has the deepest pockets and wants it the most.

.

At higher prices it's not about attracting buyers, it's about attracting consignors.
Being able to say they typically get X% over estimate is a selling point.

Not that that fools anyone who actually looks at those estimates compared to sales.

[ullmandds]

Wow...corey!!!!! Thx for sharing!!!

[Yoda]

PSA has already announced that SGC will become a "boutique" grader. I wonder if this might mean they are the grader of choice for all card submissions dated 1970 and prior. That way they can focus on the real business, grading Pokemon cards.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Yoda

PSA has already announced that SGC will become a "boutique" grader. I wonder if this might mean they are the grader of choice for all card submissions dated 1970 and prior. That way they can focus on the real business, grading Pokemon cards.

I hope "boutique" doesn't mean higher grading fees, but I suspect that it will.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

I hope "boutique" doesn't mean higher grading fees, but I suspect that it will.

PSA would like to discourage all of us from using SGC so they can shut it down. Key people have left the company or migrated to PSA. They are no longer doing shows. They are taking in a fraction of the cards but the turnaround times are just as long as when they were inundated.

Bet Nat has the company down to 10 part time employees. If raising fees does not convince us to stop using them then they will make sure they start grading even tougher.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

PSA would like to discourage all of us from using SGC so they can shut it down. Key people have left the company or migrated to PSA. They are no longer doing shows. They are taking in a fraction of the cards but the turnaround times are just as long as when they were inundated.

Bet Nat has the company down to 10 part time employees. If raising fees does not convince us to stop using them then they will make sure they start grading even tougher.

That is my thought but I’m in the minority on this one.

[Johnny630]

I think it would be a good idea for PSA to call SGC the Trusted Legacy Grading Division.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Very nice Corey! Do you mind sharing the story behind both of those?

I acquired each card some years ago and they both were purchased from the same individual. Interestingly, when each card first appeared at auction, I was the underbidder both times. So, it was very satisfying to eventually be able to purchase them.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

I acquired each card some years ago and they both were purchased from the same individual. Interestingly, when each card first appeared at auction, I was the underbidder both times. So, it was very satisfying to eventually be able to purchase them.

Truly amazing. Don't answer this if you don't feel like it, but did the seller's last name start with M? I think I might have heard this story from his end.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Truly amazing. Don't answer this if you don't feel like it, but did the seller's last name start with M? I think I might have heard this story from his end.

Hank,

I believe I know who you are referring to, but no, my seller's last name did not start with M.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Hank, I believe I know who you are referring to, but no, my seller's last name did not start with M.

Thanks, Corey, I'm sure you do know my guy. That means there are at least two fellows who sold not one, but two, of these, and that strikes me as amazing given their mind-boggling rarity. We all have stories of incredible fortune in picking up things we thought maybe we would never get, but yours has to be up there with the greatest! Thanks for sharing with us mere mortals!

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Thanks, Corey, I'm sure you do know my guy. That means there are at least two fellows who sold not one, but two, of these, and that strikes me as amazing given their mind-boggling rarity. We all have stories of incredible fortune in picking up things we thought maybe we would never get, but yours has to be up there with the greatest! Thanks for sharing with us mere mortals!

Hank, my guess is that your guy's two Ruth cards are the same cards Corey acquired. I suspect that Mr. "M" (I know who you are referring to) either sold these cards to the guy Corey got them from, or sold them to someone(s) who later sold them to the guy Corey got them from. Whatever the case, I echo your thanks to Corey for sharing them with us.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Hank, my guess is that your guy's two Ruth cards are the same cards Corey acquired. I suspect that Mr. "M" (I know who you are referring to) either sold these cards to the guy Corey got them from, or sold them to someone(s) who later sold them to the guy Corey got them from. Whatever the case, I echo your thanks to Corey for sharing them with us.

Wouldn't that be something! Makes me wonder if there has ever been the kind of tracing of these as in the case of the Wags. In one sense, that should be easier given the greater scarcity of the Ruths, but on the other hand when was it that those starting getting the same kind of publicity as the famous-from-the-beginning-of-the-hobby-Wagner, which might make it more difficult to track all of the public transactions of the former in the early years of the hobby? In any case, it's fascinating!

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Wouldn't that be something! Makes me wonder if there has ever been the kind of tracing of these as in the case of the Wags. In one sense, that should be easier given the greater scarcity of the Ruths, but on the other hand when was it that those starting getting the same kind of publicity as the famous-from-the-beginning-of-the-hobby-Wagner, which might make it more difficult to track all of the public transactions of the former in the early years of the hobby? In any case, it's fascinating!

Hank, I think that transactions of Baltimore News Ruth cards and T206 Wagner cards have often been done privately, rather than publicly.

[Lorewalker]

And I know of a Mr. F who allegedly had two of them, a red and a blue, but his were consigned to an auction house at different times.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Hank, I think that transactions of Baltimore News Ruth cards and T206 Wagner cards have often been done privately, rather than publicly.

Oh, I'm sure, Val, but there are, as I'm sure you've seen, lists and even pictures of something like the last 50 Wags to appear in the hobby in some fashion over the last 50 years or so.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

And I know of a Mr. F who allegedly had two of them, a red and a blue, but his were consigned to an auction house at different times.

I wonder if these might not be Corey's cards.

[bcbgcbrcb]

What’s with all of the pussyfooting around here, Mr M, Mr F, etc. These guys should just book an appearance on Good Morning America and announce to the world that they are the proud owner of the two best and rarest Babe Ruth cards in the world. And that’s just part of their rare vintage card portfolio.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

What’s with all of the pussyfooting around here, Mr M, Mr F, etc.

Must be pusillanimous pussyfooters.

[Hankphenom]

It's about not wanting to violate any kind of confidence. It does sound a little strange, and perhaps I'm being overly careful, but I'd rather err on the side of caution.

[Tabe]

What is the known population of each variation?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I wonder if these might not be Corey's cards.

Doubt it unless he broke his out of graded holders. Did not seem like he wanted to share much about his cards.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Tabe

What is the known population of each variation?

+1. Bueller? Anyone?

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Tabe

What is the known population of each variation?

There are six blue and four red variations known.

There are also two different backs known to exist.

[Baseball Rarities]

Here are the two different backs that the Ruth and his Baltimore Orioles teammates can come with. There are also two different backs for the cards featuring Baltimore Terrapins of the Federal League.

Obviously, not mine - I stole the images either online or from an auction catalog.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

There are six blue and four red variations known. There are also two different backs known to exist.

Thanks, Kevin. Do you know of any timeline history of the public appearances/known transactions of the Ruths similar to that done for the 50 or so known Wags?

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Thanks, Kevin. Do you know of any timeline history of the public appearances/known transactions of the Ruths similar to that done for the 50 or so known Wags?

I believe that 9 of the 10 known have sold at least once in a public auction at some point since 1991. Some have resold privately since then.

The 10th was sold privately.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

I believe that 9 of the 10 known have sold at least once in a public auction at some point since 1991. Some have resold privately since then. The 10th was sold privately.

I know this is a stretch, but you wouldn't have a listing of those auction results, would you? I'm also wondering if anyone has searched early hobby pubs and sale lists for mentions of this card, which seems warranted given its emergence as a possible contender for the most iconic (and valuable) card in the hobby.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I know this is a stretch, but you wouldn't have a listing of those auction results, would you? I'm also wondering if anyone has searched early hobby pubs and sale lists for mentions of this card, which seems warranted given its emergence as a possible contender for the most iconic (and valuable) card in the hobby.

I believe that these are the auctions that last had the different 1914 Baltimore News Ruth cards:

1991 Sotheby's Copeland sale
1998 Sotheby's Halper sale
1999 Superior
2001 Sloate
2005 REA
2007 REA
2008 REA
2013 REA
2025 Heritage

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

I believe that these are the auctions that last had the different 1914 Baltimore News Ruth cards:
1991 Sotheby's Copeland sale
1998 Sotheby's Halper sale
1999 Superior
2001 Sloate
2005 REA
2007 REA
2008 REA
2013 REA
2025 Heritage

Wow, great stuff, Kevin! And these are all different cards? Is there a similar list of all those cards appearing in public transactions, including repeats? I'd also love to hear about any earlier public "sightings" in hobby pubs, collector letters, etc. I'm wondering when this card began to take on more than oddball, even if pricey oddball, status among the general hobby. My impression is that its regard as a monster has been fairly recent, but it would also be interesting to know the trend over time that brought it to this level.

[Baseball Rarities]

Hank - I believe that these are the last auctions for each of the nine Ruths that have sold publicly. Some have been sold in an auction multiple times, but I did not include their earlier sales.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

There are six blue and four red variations known.

There are also two different backs known to exist.

Thank you!