I wonder if the dude with the paper cutter lost his finger on this one?

[MW1]

Dan,

I've seen quite a few T206s that have an irregular factory cut on the top like that. It's really not that unusual. Without an in-person visual examination of the card it's impossible to tell if it has been trimmed after the fact, but I would guess that it is not.

[danmckee]

Really? Looks obvious to me after 43 years of collecting T206.

If the angle cut matches top and bottom then yes, I agree with you

But with a straight bottom and a paper cutter top, this is blatantly HACKED!

I promise you I would receive 100 authentics if I popped it and submitted it that many times.

[4815162342]

If a card is on the bottom of the sheet, then it is possible to for the top and bottom angles to not match, correct?

...


Is the Lajoie port on the bottom of the sheet?

[danmckee]

Who knows if the cutters stopped 1 row befroe the bottom of the sheets or not??

Are you kidding me?

If I submit this card it is "AUTHENTIC" PERIOD!!!!!!

you have gotta be kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alanu]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Who knows if the cutters stopped 1 row befroe the bottom of the sheets or not??

Are you kidding me?

If I submit this card it is "AUTHENTIC" PERIOD!!!!!!

you have gotta be kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is the real issue if this card is trimmed or if some people get preferential treatment at the grading companies?

[Ronnie73]

First, I have posted this in both threads about this subject. Also, lets keep this a friendy debate. I'm not an expert but just sharing what I do know.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=152007 T206 Resource, I would appreciate an opinion on this one
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151903 I wonder if the dude with the paper cutter lost his finger on this one?


I can understand everyones feeling about a diamond cut needing to match the top and bottom and i'm not going to say wether the card was trimmed or not but I will tell you what I do know. First let me say that I personally don't buy diamond cuts with one strait edge and one angled edge because they always look possibly trimmed when in the holder and just don't look good to me. I also have seen more SGC holders (mostly older ones) with numerically graded cards with one straight edge and one angle edge than PSA over the years. Over 20 years ago, I worked at a print shop and all the equipment was early 1900's. I worked the cutter alot and depending on how much paper was under the clamp, as the blade sliced down, you could get a fanning of the paper. Now by experiece on how the cutter works, I can tell you that the T206's were first cut in vertical strips because you never see a diamond cut on the sides. This is because the paper clamp has the full length of the sheet pile to hold onto. After that, the strips were put into the clamp, one strip pile at a time. The pile would be no more than 2 inches high because its hand opperated and the more you cut at once, the harder it is. This is where the fanning or diamond cut happens. The clamp only has the width of the card to hold onto. During the first cut, you would put the strip pile flat against the fence and clamp down. As the wedged blade cuts down, the pile can twist under the clamp and the cards closest to the bottom would have the greatest degee of angle. Now remember that the pile started with a straight edge and now a few cards from the bottom of the pile have a diamond cut edge on the top border of the card. This scenario would create the card in question. Now for matching top and bottom diamond cuts. Once an angled cut happens and you put that angled cut against the cutting fence, you continue to get the same angle within the rest of that strip of cards.

Below is a copy of an older post I wrote. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=143487 How T206's were cut?

I believe the cards were cut with the machine pictured in the link. I've used one of these cutters at an old print shop. There is an adjustable fence on the back side of the cutter and clamp. I believe the card sheets were cut first into vertical strips. After cutting off the border scrap, the fence would be adjusted 1 7/16 inches from the blade and then a stack of sheets maybe measuring 1 to 2 inches thick with a scrap piece of thick cardboard on the bottom and top of the pile would be slid into the front of the cutter. Adjust the pile smoothly against the fence and then turn the clamp wheel down tight. This is why a piece of scrap cardboard is used, so there are no clamp impressions on the cards. Then pull the handle down and cut the pile. Release the clamp and put the cut strip aside and continue to repeat the process until a good quantity are cut into strips. Now to cut the strips into single cards. Adjust the fence to 2 5/8 inches and now cut them into singles. I believe it was done exactly in this process because when cutting small strips of anything on one of these cutters, the clamp does not have enough surface area to clamp onto and the pile tends to sometimes fan out a bit. This would be the reason we see some T206's with the tops and bottoms cut at equal angles known to many as diamond cuts. The cards could not be cut any other way because if you follow a diamond cut angle through a whole sheet, the cut will be maybe an inch or so into the picture on one side of the sheet and on the other side the cut will be between the boarders of two cards. So first they were cut into vertical strips and then cut into singles. Hope this is not too confusing. I could always draw a diagram to explain the diamond cut angles.

http://www.bookbindersmuseum.com/ind...id=1:equipment

[MW1]

Dan,

I greatly admire your knowledge, passion, and enthusiasm for this great hobby but I think you're a bit off on this one.

Both the top and bottom of the card are cut at the same angle, though the top is more pronounced. Again, not that unusual for someone who has viewed hundreds of thousands of T206s.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by MW1

Both the top and bottom of the card are cut at the same angle, though the top is more pronounced.

That's the way I see at as well. I don't know why Dan keeps saying the bottom is straight when it's not. As much as I dislike PSA, I don't think the card is trimmed.

[Leon]

Dan, from the scan it looks funky to me too. I am not getting into the fray though. And of course I don't care what you say about anything or anyone. Why should I care? You have a right to your opinion just like everyone else. See you at the National!!

I should add that I am not saying the card in question is trimmed. I don't know if it is or isn't. Anyone can see it has a funky cut.

[tedzan]

Deleted

[CMIZ5290]

my absolute opinion is the card is not trimmed....