Erasing errant marks and......caramel vs tobacco

[Cardboard Junkie]

Hi Leon....I just checked out a site called "The Straight Dope" (fighting ignorance since 1973.) I know of no TPG company that employs x-rays in their evaluation. Do you? There will always be a trace of tampering when trying to erase pencil marks. TPGs just don't look hard enough, heck they can't even catch trimmed and rebacked cards? How would you expect a bunch of bumbleducks to see a lightly erased pencil mark. They are only in it for the money and they suck at evaluating cards. It is unethical and downright deceiving if trying to hide or eliminate them. What is your take on "creases" ? If a crease is pressed out with a press, and then undetectable with the naked eye...does that seem ok with you? How about "dry cleaning"? to brighten up a dirty and dull card? Is there no end to it...people should stop effing around with our beloved cards! Aloha, dave. ps Hey leon nothing personal cause you know i respect and love the work you do here.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Hi Leon....I just checked out a site called "The Straight Dope" (fighting ignorance since 1973.) I know of no TPG company that employs x-rays in their evaluation. Do you? There will always be a trace of tampering when trying to erase pencil marks. TPGs just don't look hard enough, heck they can't even catch trimmed and rebacked cards? How would you expect a bunch of bumbleducks to see a lightly erased pencil mark. They are only in it for the money and they suck at evaluating cards. It is unethical and downright deceiving if trying to hide or eliminate them. What is your take on "creases" ? If a crease is pressed out with a press, and then undetectable with the naked eye...does that seem ok with you? How about "dry cleaning"? to brighten up a dirty and dull card? Is there no end to it...people should stop effing around with our beloved cards! Aloha, dave. ps Hey leon nothing personal cause you know i respect and love the work you do here.

Nothing personal at all Dave. Folks can have meaningful debates, completely disagree, and still be friends. In that respect this is all a good debate and I respect your opinions, even if not in agreement with them. My line stops at taking things off cards that weren't supposed to be there to start with (including soaking in water which I am ok with too). I doubt there is an advanced collector on this board that hasn't pushed down a flipped up corner. No harm at all. However, all of that other stuff you talked about, I am against. There is an end, it is not endless.

[pcoz]

We're talking about removing pencil that was added to a card haphazardly by someone, that can only be possibly detected with the Hubble telescope. I don't see how that's defacing or altering a card. It's like removing dirt that was on a card. If you're recoloring, rebacking, etc..that's certainly altering a card. I recently had SGC pop my card out, sit with me while I gently got off the light pencil mark, then had them regrade it. It wasn't done to deceive or I wouldn't have done it, or made them part of the process. They see a million more cards than any of us, so I'll go with their view of pencil removal as not altering in any way.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Aloha Pete! Sooo let me understand this correctly...SGC graders witnessed you erase a light pencil mark....then graded the card as "unaltered?" WTF? dave.

[esd10]

how i was saying about a subset something similar with the 1909 d355 niagara baking cards but they are e101's with a stamp on the back so they could do the same with these cards.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by esd10

how i was saying about a subset something similar with the 1909 d355 niagara baking cards but they are e101's with a stamp on the back so they could do the same with these cards.

+1

[pcoz]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Aloha Pete! Sooo let me understand this correctly...SGC graders witnessed you erase a light pencil mark....then graded the card as "unaltered?" WTF? dave.

Aloha Dave! The card was an E98 Old Put Mack SGC 20. I called them to schedule a walk thru and explained the faint pencil on the back. I spoke to Scott & Earl, who both agreed removing pencil that wasn't on the card in its distribution was not altering the card in any way. So, I went down on Friday, and it came off in less than a minute. They regraded it and gave me a SGC 40. It's a really sharp card, and was downgraded 2 levels by a faint pencil that wasn't there originally. IMO, they were fair with the original grade having the pencil on it, and fair with the grade after it was back in its original condition. We all have our thoughts on this topic, and I guess we can all agree to disagree.

[Cardboard Junkie]

All I can say is HOLY SHITE! And SHAME on them!

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by pcoz

I recently had SGC pop my card out, sit with me while I gently got off the light pencil mark, then had them regrade it. It wasn't done to deceive or I wouldn't have done it, or made them part of the process.

people can erase or don't erase...piss on it i don't care not my cards, but sgc went down a notch in my book after reading this statement. will they sit with me while i crack out my sgc40 with a crease and soak/smooth that sucker out too for a regrade to sgc60? since some in the hobby consider soaking and erasing on the par.