Erasing a light pencil mark, altering in a negative manner?

[4815162342]

Okay, at the time of this post, the board opinion on this matter is an overwhelming 81-10 that pencil erasure isn't a negative alteration. I have one question though: Would it make a difference if this were a high-grade card?

If this card was originally graded SGC 80 / PSA 8 MK, then upon removal of the pencil erasure became SGC 98-100 / PSA 10, would you still think it's okay?

[pcoz]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Okay, at the time of this post, the board opinion on this matter is an overwhelming 81-10 that pencil erasure isn't a negative alteration. I have one question though: Would it make a difference if this were a high-grade card?

If this card was originally graded SGC 80 / PSA 8 MK, then upon removal of the pencil erasure became SGC 98-100 / PSA 10, would you still think it's okay?

Great question, but I'd say that it shouldn't make a difference. I'm happier having the 40 vs. 20 in my situation, and would pay more for it if it wasn't mine and up for sale.

[Tedw9]

I guess I would fall somewhere in the middle. If the pencil mark being removed affected the card so you could notice something was removed, then yes it's altered. But if you are so good that even with loupe you couldn't tell, then no.

[Tao_Moko]

In most cases a pencil will still have left some remaining mark on the card due to pressure. I would still prefer an erased mark alteration over some of the soaked cards I've received. It's about disclosure so the buyer can make an informed decision on his purchase.

[Texxxx]

OMG, Moving the card at all is altering it!!!

Leon, I think you started this just to watch the fight. LOL

[npa589]

Just to play the part of stirring a cordial pot, this is kind of along the lines of Bruce's post, but, by definition, touching a card alters the card, as is also placing it in a card sleeve, toploader, or "Ultra" pocket sheet. It's affecting the fibers of the card in every way that lead or graphite do, albeit the latter affect it in a more visible and substantial way. How about the fibers from the cardstock that have slightly worn off over the years?

In a way, everyone is correct. I think the wrench in the situation, and the unstated factor in this is TPG. We're analyzing this according to what the grade would be, and, in turn, what the value would be. Is the question actually, how far can one go to "change, or alter the card" before it's considered "cheating" a future buyer?

Just some thoughts, even though I'm not really takign a stance. Ha!

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[glchen]

I voted that erasing the light pencil mark is an alteration. The reason is that I think it's too fine a line to where people are saying that as long as the erasure isn't noticeable under 10x loupe, it's fine. Then what if it were a pen mark that a paper conservator removed where the removal also wasn't noticeable? What if someone were trimming a T206 Wagner or Plank where the trim job wasn't noticeable? If the owner of the card doesn't like the mark on it, sure, he can remove it, but then the card should be advertised as having the mark removed, and let the buyer judge whether that makes a difference in the price he would pay for it.