Erasing a light pencil mark, altering in a negative manner?

[glchen]

I voted that erasing the light pencil mark is an alteration. The reason is that I think it's too fine a line to where people are saying that as long as the erasure isn't noticeable under 10x loupe, it's fine. Then what if it were a pen mark that a paper conservator removed where the removal also wasn't noticeable? What if someone were trimming a T206 Wagner or Plank where the trim job wasn't noticeable? If the owner of the card doesn't like the mark on it, sure, he can remove it, but then the card should be advertised as having the mark removed, and let the buyer judge whether that makes a difference in the price he would pay for it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by glchen

I voted that erasing the light pencil mark is an alteration. The reason is that I think it's too fine a line to where people are saying that as long as the erasure isn't noticeable under 10x loupe, it's fine. Then what if it were a pen mark that a paper conservator removed where the removal also wasn't noticeable? What if someone were trimming a T206 Wagner or Plank where the trim job wasn't noticeable? If the owner of the card doesn't like the mark on it, sure, he can remove it, but then the card should be advertised as having the mark removed, and let the buyer judge whether that makes a difference in the price he would pay for it.

Well, you voted for something that wasn't asked but I think you hit the jest of it anyway. The question was purposely phrased to have the connotation of erasing a mark being a "negative". Of course, technically doing almost anything to a card is altering it. The question is "is it a negative"? This also has no bearing on if the mark can still be seen or not. That too is of no consequence. The question was, and is, "is erasing a mark a "negative" alteration?" And to that, the large majority say "no".

For the record I sold a high 4 figure card to a good friend and board member, after it came out of a PSA 6 MK holder, and after I erased the mark, and it was holdered an SGC 80 (rightfully so, it's a beautiful card). I did disclose the erasure before the sale and the buyer had 0 issue with it. I don't care if someone has erased something from a card I am buying and I don't even care if they tell me or not. That's just me though and I know others want to know.....to each their own.

[steve B]

These are the sort of questions I find I can't answer as asked.

Different cards, different marks, it all makes the issue more complex than the question requires.

A light pencil mark that originally left nearly no physical trace - I don't think removal is a bad thing.
IF
It's done in a way that doesn't damage the card. Some erasers are rougher on the paper surface than others.

A heavy pencil mark might be ok to remove, if for instance it's on the back and erasing it doesn't damage the printed portion. There will still be indentations from the writing, so I wouldn't expect the technical grade to change.
But I have a few T206s with erasures on the front. That's pretty bad, and I would rather they'd left it alone.

Spilled ink or stuff like that- Maybe, it's usually hard for an amateur to remove without doing more damage. Removed, lightened it should still be considered marked.

Some marks are more interesting. Like owners stamps and stuff like that. I would consider removing that sort of mark to be bad, as to me the stamp might be better than the card.

never an "it depends" as an answer........

Steve B

[wonkaticket]

I messed up my vote can I erase and start over?

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

I messed up my vote can I erase and start over?

Now THAT is funny!! No erasing though....you have to throw a "meatball" at it! aloha, dave

[Clutch-Hitter]

Whoever made the mark altered the card. One can't undo trimming, coloring, etc (don't think so anyway). Altering an alteration? My vote: no, erase it.

I have a Ruth that was graded PSA authentic and was relieved when I found out it was only due to an erased mark.

[dougscats]

Interesting thread.
Most surprising: that it is more or less acceptable to erase.

I'd done it when I was newer to the hobby, years ago, with some low-grade T206's. I did it not to deceive but to improve the appearance of the cards, with good results. But thinking more about it and concerned with the ethics, I stopped.

Reading this thread, I was surprised to learn that SGC and most responders condoned it. After some more circumspection, I cracked open a PSA 1 [Mk] Frank Baker I'd recently bought, erased the light pencil mark on the back, and was very pleased to have improved the card. I can't see any erasure with the naked eye, nor is it noticeable under the microscope. I would disclose it were I to sell/trade it.

But it brings up the question: What's the best eraser to use?

I've used an ordinary draftsman's eraser [the white, plastic type, say the size of a 2" long, half inch thick bar]--certainly not the standard, orange pencil eraser, which could well leave color or damage the carboard fiber--But does anyone have any better suggestions? I do remember when I was a draftsman, many, many years ago, there was a gummy/putty-consistency eraser that might even be better.

Thanks.

Doug