Sweet Caporal Pin with Whitehead & Hoag?

[nolemmings]

I'm too lazy to help much, but I notice that the Whitehead & Hoag insert has a union symbol similar to one on a Konetchy tribute card that Leon owns, one dated to 1912. That symbol may not have been around in the 1890s--I just don't know. If it was not, then maybe Whitehead & Hoag issued other pins in the 1910-1912 era--this may be no surprise to pin collectors. That would mean whether by accident or on purpose, a W&H back got inserted from some other pin set into the P2. Maybe the job of placing the inserts into pins was farmed out to a company that did it both for Sweet Cap and W&H. Just stoking the fire.

[Buythatcard]

I originally started this thread back in 2012 asking whether anyone ever saw a Sweet Caporal pin with a Whitehead & Hoag insert.
I have sold 1,374 Sweet Caporal Pins over the years and I just came across the second one that has the same insert.
Looking at the insert it says 1896 while I know the pins are from 1910-12.

I find it strange why someone would use that particular insert. Seeing it once, I just accepted it. But now seeing it for the second time, just baffles me.

Just wondering whether others have seen this?

[scooter729]

Interesting for sure, and I can't answer the question now any better than I could in 2012.

But I do know that for those who collect the P2 pins, there doesn't seem to be much interest in any back variations regardless of scarcity. I know there is a scarce variation where the typical back appears but with orange lettering. These are tough - I only have one (Speaker LL) and am only aware of a small handful of others - but they don't seem to command much of a premium at all.

So these scarce W&H backs may indeed be original, but it may not matter much when it comes to the selling price because of lack of demand.

[steve B]

Without looking exactly what the patent is for, the date is just the patent date for some aspect of the pin or how it was made. It could have been made well after that.

Maybe W+H branded some pins for themselves as samples?
Or there was some release under a different brand, but they decided to not get a special insert?
Or.. Maybe they just didn't have enough SC labels one day and used what was on hand?

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by steve B

Without looking exactly what the patent is for, the date is just the patent date for some aspect of the pin or how it was made. It could have been made well after that.

Maybe W+H branded some pins for themselves as samples?
Or there was some release under a different brand, but they decided to not get a special insert?
Or.. Maybe they just didn't have enough SC labels one day and used what was on hand?

A lot of maybes. It's just one of those things we may never know.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

A lot of maybes. It's just one of those things we may never know.

I'd put that as more than "may never know".. I was just reading that when W+H ran down and got bought by a competitor in 1959, the plant wasn't added to the competition, but was closed, sold, and everything - Records, dies, all of it trashed.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'd put that as more than "may never know".. I was just reading that when W+H ran down and got bought by a competitor in 1959, the plant wasn't added to the competition, but was closed, sold, and everything - Records, dies, all of it trashed.

Too bad.

We can make up our own stories so that collectors down the road will quote our findings.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by scooter729

Interesting for sure, and I can't answer the question now any better than I could in 2012.

But I do know that for those who collect the P2 pins, there doesn't seem to be much interest in any back variations regardless of scarcity. I know there is a scarce variation where the typical back appears but with orange lettering. These are tough - I only have one (Speaker LL) and am only aware of a small handful of others - but they don't seem to command much of a premium at all.

So these scarce W&H backs may indeed be original, but it may not matter much when it comes to the selling price because of lack of demand.

Never saw the orange lettering version. If you get a chance, can you post a pic of it? I would love to see it.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Never saw the orange lettering version. If you get a chance, can you post a pic of it? I would love to see it.

Sure thing, here it is....

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by scooter729

Sure thing, here it is....

Never seen one like this before. Really never paid attention to the colors.

Thanks for posting.

[obcmac]

I reviewed my P2 set...not nearly enough discussion about P2's :-)

I have 11 pins with the red/orange printing on the back. All of them are on Large Letter pins. With respect to the backing, it seems that the cardboard comes in 4 colors (easiest to hardest)...white and grey, orange, and blue...with a rough 45/45/8/2 split on the colors (my eyeball estimate). I didn't have any W&H backs.

Mac