Now that all the lying is done...do you think clemens makes the hall?

[packs]

I think Dan has it right. Andy is a stand up guy. He admitted what he did and the public forgave him. He never passed the blame onto someone other than himself.

Not to mention only one 500 season in a 17 year career, no losing seasons, winning 100 more games than he lost and his incredible post season numbers.

[iwantitiwinit]

Honestly I don't even care. First I will say he was proven innocent in a court of law so I have to accept that. I do however think he is clearly guilty, it is impossible to fabricate dna evidence and while the chain of custody is in question I don't see any plausible way his dna could get on that needle other than receiving a shot. Given that he should not make the hall of fame in my opinion and think many sportswriters will feel similarly. What irks me is that the gov't brings a case they know they can't win and now because he is found not guilty in a court of law it lends creditability to him. Ridiculous. Who even cares anymore its a sham. Just my opinion though of course.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by packs

I think Dan has it right. Andy is a stand up guy. He admitted what he did and the public forgave him. He never passed the blame onto someone other than himself.

Pettite's misremembering during his testimony at the trial was a large part in Clemens being acquitted. He lied on the stand, he's not stand-up guy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Pettite's misremembering during his testimony at the trial was a large part in Clemens being acquitted. He lied on the stand, he's not stand-up guy.

Nah, it was just a skillful cross-examination.

[CMIZ5290]

Jeff's exactly right about this flake....screw him

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nah, it was just a skillful cross-examination.

Except it was on direct too

[murcerfan]

the real question here is why our "broke" federal government is spending money on these witch hunts.

[Kenny Cole]

Because making sure that professional athletes who make millions a year are clean is an absolute priority for our congress (little c intended). Otherwise, they might actually have to deal with issues that are important and no one wants that.

[teetwoohsix]

All distractions to keep the war machine rolling..........

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by murcerfan

the real question here is why our "broke" federal government is spending money on these witch hunts.

Because most congressmen are jock sniffers with egos that make superstar baseball players look like Mother Teresa?

[Texxxx]

My god, what a witch hunt!!

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Pettite's misremembering during his testimony at the trial was a large part in Clemens being acquitted. He lied on the stand, he's not stand-up guy.

How true.

It's estimated that this trial cost the taxpayers roughly $2M. Pettite should pick up the tab, because he waffled on his prior testimony and the prosecution was counting on Pettite. It's rather doubtful if the Feds would have pursued Clemens otherwise.

[HRBAKER]

I lost all respect I had for Mr. Petitte.
He either lied before or now, either is unacceptable.
As for Roger, he's lost in the court of public opinion at any rate.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I have seen/met Roger Clemens many times around town. I have actually spent time in the home of Andy Pettitte and had a nice conversation with him. Met his wife and kids as well. I don't care if he lied or not. Makes no difference to me. Lying doesn't mean that he's not a stand up guy. Who here has never told a lie? Come on, speak up (or shut up!!!)!

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Lying doesn't mean that he's not a stand up guy.

That's exactly what it means.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Mikehealer

That's exactly what it means.

Mike, have you ever told a lie? Are you a stand up guy?

[packs]

You guys are entitled to your opinions about Andy, but how would you react if the cops told you it was up to you to put your friend in jail? You might give your friend an out too. I know I would if I knew it was me who would be sending him to prison. I love my friends. Even if I don't like them.

[HRBAKER]

David,
The answer to your question is no one.
But if the question is who has never under oath, you might get a different answer.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

David,
The answer to your question is no one.
But if the question is who has never under oath, you might get a different answer.

Jeff, is lying under oath any more morally wrong than lying not under oath? I was always taught that a lie is a lie. Maybe I was taught wrong.

As "Packs" pointed out, many of us would probably do the same thing if we were in Pettitte's shoes to save a friend, a relative, our job, etc (as long as it didn't mean getting someone else in trouble).