Now that all the lying is done...do you think clemens makes the hall?

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Pettite's misremembering during his testimony at the trial was a large part in Clemens being acquitted. He lied on the stand, he's not stand-up guy.

How true.

It's estimated that this trial cost the taxpayers roughly $2M. Pettite should pick up the tab, because he waffled on his prior testimony and the prosecution was counting on Pettite. It's rather doubtful if the Feds would have pursued Clemens otherwise.

[HRBAKER]

I lost all respect I had for Mr. Petitte.
He either lied before or now, either is unacceptable.
As for Roger, he's lost in the court of public opinion at any rate.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I have seen/met Roger Clemens many times around town. I have actually spent time in the home of Andy Pettitte and had a nice conversation with him. Met his wife and kids as well. I don't care if he lied or not. Makes no difference to me. Lying doesn't mean that he's not a stand up guy. Who here has never told a lie? Come on, speak up (or shut up!!!)!

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Lying doesn't mean that he's not a stand up guy.

That's exactly what it means.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Mikehealer

That's exactly what it means.

Mike, have you ever told a lie? Are you a stand up guy?

[Mikehealer]

I have. I am not.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by Mikehealer

I have. I am not.

To the second part of this reply, I disagree. IMO you are a stand up guy.

It's interesting that a jury acquited him but many people still think he's a liar. I know the jury doesn't always get it right (OJ) but I don't see the compeling evidence-maybe I'm missing something.

Look at early cards of Bonds- skinny as a beanpole. Years later, looks like a tank. I didn't see Clemens looking like that, maybe that's why I'm not convinced. And, this Mac guy holding on to a syringe for all of these years? Sounds strange to me.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Mike, have you ever told a lie? Are you a stand up guy?

Did Mike ever commit perjury.

[packs]

I think Andy is a stand up guy for taking responsibility for his own actions.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

Did Mike ever commit perjury.

I guessing the answer is no. Then again, according to the jury, Roger Clemens didn't either.

[packs]

You guys are entitled to your opinions about Andy, but how would you react if the cops told you it was up to you to put your friend in jail? You might give your friend an out too. I know I would if I knew it was me who would be sending him to prison. I love my friends. Even if I don't like them.

[HRBAKER]

David,
The answer to your question is no one.
But if the question is who has never under oath, you might get a different answer.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

David,
The answer to your question is no one.
But if the question is who has never under oath, you might get a different answer.

Jeff, is lying under oath any more morally wrong than lying not under oath? I was always taught that a lie is a lie. Maybe I was taught wrong.

As "Packs" pointed out, many of us would probably do the same thing if we were in Pettitte's shoes to save a friend, a relative, our job, etc (as long as it didn't mean getting someone else in trouble).

[HRBAKER]

David,
What does it matter, you said it makes no difference to you whether he did or not. I said that I believed the answers to the two different questions would be different. The consequences of one are much more dire (in most instances) than the other and have the desired effect on most people's behavior I believe.

I pointed that out bc your inference was that if he lied, he just did what we all do or have done. I pointed out that all have lied but (I believe) most have not under oath and would not.

As to the original question, I believe that Roger Dodger will get in the HOF and so will Petitte for that matter.

Jeff

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I pointed out that all have lied but (I believe) most have not under oath and would not.

I disagree. I think most would lie under oath if it meant saving their own butt or someone else's (as long as the lie didn't hurt anybody else). Just look at Bill Clinton. He held the highest office in the country and lied under oath. Case closed!