Marino Cuts (Operation Bullpen)

[JimStinson]

I'm trying to do this from memory, there was another well known autograph guy there and if he wants to add to this he can. But I remember back when I was an autograph consultant for PSA , before their division was even launched and I remember being shown signed stuff that was supposed to be part of the "Bull pen" thing that at that time they were trying to nail down. The Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Sandy Koufax, Joe DiMaggio's were especially well executed. In fact most of their modern day stuff was pretty darn good. Their weakness seemed to be the easy guys like Feller, Killebrew, Reggie but frankly those were pretty close too. Where they REALLY dropped the ball was on the older vintage stuff , which was not well done at all , maybe thats because I'm more experienced in that area or maybe they were weaker I don;t know its been a long time. Hope this helps
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[Mr. Zipper]

This thread inspired me to re-read Operation Bullpen and something just struck me. In the photos section there is a Marino signed "Five Presidents" photo. This is the pose taken at the Nixon Library of the 5 living presidents at the time (Nixon through Bush 41)

However, the signature over George HW Bush 41 is the signature of George W Bush (the future 43)!!!

The book mentions Greg Marino assembled a "black book" of exemplars. Obviously he was using the wrong Bush template.

[David Atkatz]

He wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

[travrosty]

Hey, I happen to know Kevin Nelson, who wrote the book Operation Bullpen. He doesn't belong to the forum but he did see this thread and he sent me this note to post. It says:

"Hey everyone, I happened to see your thread on Greg Marino cuts and I wanted to add my two cents. The person who said the quote about how "there really were no cuts" before Bray and Marino was Phil Halpern, the United States District Attorney in the case who was part of the FBI investigation. This is, to be sure, an exaggeration on Halpern's part, but there is absolutely no question that the Bray-Marino ring took cuts to a whole new level, producing tens of thousands of them and far exceeding anyone else in the business.

Marino, in his prime, was producing dozens of cuts every day, when he did cuts, and the ring was in full-time operation for years. In fact he told me that he produced more than a million forgeries in his career, including cuts and other types of forgeries. All best, Kevin Nelson"

[RichardSimon]

Yes the Marino ring took cuts to a new level volume wise but Dross and Zimmerman forged a huge amount of autographs, mostly on cuts.
I can still remember the day when I was set up at a baseball card show and a young couple came to my table, envelope in hand. They asked if I buy autographs. When I said yes they dumped the contents of the envelope on my table. There were probably about 50 cuts. All forgeries. When I asked them who they bought them from they told me Ron Dross. I had to tell them that everything was forged. They wanted to sell these autographs, which he had been collecting for some time, to finance their wedding. When I had to give them the bad news they were crestfallen. They proceeded to another table, manned by Richard Galasso, and he gave them the same news I did.
Dross eventually graduated to the infamous huge scam involving B&W HOF plaks, balls and photos.
He probably milked that scam for about $100K.
Nobody ever prosecuted them so perhaps the US Atty was not aware of the presence of these two. But they were full time forgers.

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by travrosty

Hey, I happen to know Kevin Nelson, who wrote the book Operation Bullpen. He doesn't belong to the forum but he did see this thread and he sent me this note to post. It says:

"Hey everyone, I happened to see your thread on Greg Marino cuts and I wanted to add my two cents. The person who said the quote about how "there really were no cuts" before Bray and Marino was Phil Halpern, the United States District Attorney in the case who was part of the FBI investigation. This is, to be sure, an exaggeration on Halpern's part, but there is absolutely no question that the Bray-Marino ring took cuts to a whole new level, producing tens of thousands of them and far exceeding anyone else in the business.

Marino, in his prime, was producing dozens of cuts every day, when he did cuts, and the ring was in full-time operation for years. In fact he told me that he produced more than a million forgeries in his career, including cuts and other types of forgeries. All best, Kevin Nelson"

Did Mr. Nelson get pics/scans of more forgeries during his research than what appeared in his book?

[travrosty]

http://www.operationbullpen.com/gallery1.html

the galleries on the webpage show a few more.

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by travrosty

http://www.operationbullpen.com/gallery1.html

the galleries on the webpage show a few more.

Thanks Travis