PSA vs SGC...the definitive Debate!!!

[T206Collector]

There's a lot of "people grade cards and people make mistakes" comments in this thread. Sounds like PSA-apologists to me.

I am asking for just one -- one -- SGC graded card at 60 or higher with a visible crease.

Just

One

You can say SGC must make the same proportion of mistakes as PSA, but can you produce a single example of an SGC 60+ with a visible crease?

Try buying PSA 5s on the blind and see how long it takes you to find one. I just got this one a couple of weeks ago. Top left corner crease. Hard to see in a scan, but really easy to see in person. Probably an SGC 40. Oh well.

[glynparson]

like I said, but I can assure you they bought back high grade cards because of creases that were missed or pressed out and returned. PSA does allow for a wrinkle on a card up to a 6 so because there are different standards you can't really scream about it thats just a fact, like sgc allows for weaker corners on an average 5. Plus Paul have you ever seen anything negative from SGC you may be the biggest fanboy on here and if you are calling me a psa apologist also a fool. I have ripped PSA unmercifully at times but Im just sick of many on here criticizing PSA for things that SGC also does than applauding SGC.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If I were submitting a card and wanted the best assessment possible of authenticity and grade, I would choose SGC. If I were buying a card of unknown origin on the open market, I would lean slightly towards PSA, although I would be wary of both.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by glynparson

like I said, but I can assure you they bought back high grade cards because of creases that were missed or pressed out and returned. PSA does allow for a wrinkle on a card up to a 6 so because there are different standards you can't really scream about it thats just a fact, like sgc allows for weaker corners on an average 5. Plus Paul have you ever seen anything negative from SGC you may be the biggest fanboy on here and if you are calling me a psa apologist also a fool. I have ripped PSA unmercifully at times but Im just sick of many on here criticizing PSA for things that SGC also does than applauding SGC.

Fanboy? You mean SGC proponent? Sure, I may be the biggest SGC supporter on here. But what's my bias?

I have purchased 32 PSA 5 T206s since April for my mid-grade set. And it drives me crazy how much crap is currently for sale in a PSA 5 holder. I have to be a lot more careful with PSA than I am with SGC. That was my experience 10 years ago, when I began my first set, and that is my experience today as I work on a second.

2 stories.

I have a PSA 4 T205 Shulte pied 42 with 4 pin holes in it. One in each corner. An SGC 1 tops and I am fine with that. It would be accuratly graded then.

About 6 yrs ago I drove to whicita ks to buy a collection of new and vintage. He produced an unopened pack of 57 topps that I had him throw in to seal the deal. I busted the pack and pulled a Clemente that was mint. I sent it to sgc and it came back a 5. I resubmitted it for review thinking there is no way it is that and they put it in a graded bag and circled the upper left corner on the back where there was a slight spider crease or what I thought was a flaw in the cardstock. I sold the card for decent money though. What got me was the dealer that bought it submitted it to PSA and it now resides in a PSA 9 slab is what he told me. So how's that right? I could have did that also but would have felt like a thief had I sold it for 9 money. So if you sleep better at night using PSA over SGC that is fine but for me I prefer consistancy and integrity. I buy the card and not the holder anyways. Took me a while to learn but it was an easy choice after I learned my cards.

[glynparson]

Peter has made in my opinion the most accurate post of this entire thread.

Also Paul i will admit T206 does seem to be the set with the most PSA screw ups, and this may be part of the explanation for your vitriol, which I dont necessarily disagree with, I just have no more faith in SGC because of thier cronyism than PSA. If you look at some of the right places I think you'd be just as disgusted as many others have become.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

2 stories.

I have a PSA 4 T205 Shulte pied 42 with 4 pin holes in it. One in each corner. An SGC 1 tops and I am fine with that. It would be accuratly graded then.

About 6 yrs ago I drove to whicita ks to buy a collection of new and vintage. He produced an unopened pack of 57 topps that I had him throw in to seal the deal. I busted the pack and pulled a Clemente that was mint. I sent it to sgc and it came back a 5. I resubmitted it for review thinking there is no way it is that and they put it in a graded bag and circled the upper left corner on the back where there was a slight spider crease or what I thought was a flaw in the cardstock. I sold the card for decent money though. What got me was the dealer that bought it submitted it to PSA and it now resides in a PSA 9 slab is what he told me. So how's that right? I could have did that also but would have felt like a thief had I sold it for 9 money. So if you sleep better at night using PSA over SGC that is fine but for me I prefer consistancy and integrity. I buy the card and not the holder anyways. Took me a while to learn but it was an easy choice after I learned my cards.

You should have absolutely had that pack fresh Clemente graded a PSA 9 that's a no brainer. It's very simple. Just put in the description that you feel it should not have received the grade it did because of a spider crease, if that's what it was. Flip collectors don't care about the card, you should have allowed them the opportunity to bid.

To those who want scans of overgraded SGC cards you won't find many, but you will find countless undergraded ones, just as bad IMO, since I use neither to collect. Couple SGCs lower realized prices wih undergrades, the choice seems obvious.

[oldjudge]

PSA has the advantage in the marketplace on high grade cards in sets that are actively contested on the registry. At present, SGC's registry does not have the critical mass to lead to similar financial results. That could change as I know they are working to improve their registry program. However, my experience with the two companies has led me to firmly believe that SGC does a much better grading cards. They are more consistent, they have not good, but great customer service, and they have the best looking holders in the market. When I grade cards I use SGC.

Originally Posted by Matthew H

You should have absolutely had that pack fresh Clemente graded a PSA 9 that's a no brainer. It's very simple. Just put in the description that you feel it should not have received the grade it did because of a spider crease, if that's what it was. Flip collectors don't care about the card, you should have allowed them the opportunity to bid.

To those who want scans of overgraded SGC cards you won't find many, but you will find countless undergraded ones, just as bad IMO, since I use neither to collect. Couple SGCs lower realized prices wih undergrades, the choice seems obvious.

But that's dishonest. I won't allow myself to put my integrity in stake for the sake of money. I would rather sell an accuratly graded card for what it's worth and if condition warrants add a bit extra on it.

I used to spend between 1-4k a month on cards and memoribelia before my kid got sick and now only very little if I sell something or do some side work for people. I always bought SGC cards and very very few PSA cards for my sets. I could have crossed the so called under graded cards to PSA holders and made a lot more when I sold them but I believe what the flip said was accurate to me so I got what they were worth and not what the flip said. Now I chase certain backs so as long as the card is valued based on condition I could care less if it's in a PRO holder.

[chaddurbin]

ignored this thread 'til now, cuz it's stupid, not sure if pete was serious starting this thread but...

i did have an sgc60 t206 young years back with the much worse corner crease than the carrigan. it bothered me so much because the card was jarred during shipping and shifted out of the black insert, so i wasn't sure if the shipping caused further damage. looking back at the auction scan i could see the wrinkling was there b4 being shipped. up until that point i also thought sgc don't allow crease/wrinkling in EX cards either.

Originally Posted by T206Collector

There's a lot of "people grade cards and people make mistakes" comments in this thread. Sounds like PSA-apologists to me.

I am asking for just one -- one -- SGC graded card at 60 or higher with a visible crease.

Just

One

You can say SGC must make the same proportion of mistakes as PSA, but can you produce a single example of an SGC 60+ with a visible crease?

[CMIZ5290]

Chad- glad you posted that. I also have a t206 sgc 70 mordecai brown (tolstoi) with a tiny, tiny crease at the bottom on the back of the card. The card looks like an 8, so in my mind, sgc hit the card a couple of grades because of that....

[vintagetoppsguy]

I challenged anyone to post a scan of an SGC card with paper loss that is graded a 4 or higher. Nobody can do it. I can post scans of several PSA cards with paper loss that are graded a 4 or higher (many that are graded a PSA 6).

Somebody else challenged anyone to post a scan of an SGC card with a visible crease graded 5 or higher. Again, nobody can do it. Below is a better scan of the Carrigan (PSA 5.5) with the corner crease.

I hear chatter, no scans.

[chaddurbin]

how about botn's sgc60 cobb with a piece of corner hanging out? it's not a crease, but does that count?

http://www.b-lauctions.com/site/bid/...etauctionid=78

p.s. i have better use for my hard drive than saving tpg's mistakes, like porn.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Somebody else challenged anyone to post a scan of an SGC card with a visible crease graded 5 or higher. Again, nobody can do it. Below is a better scan of the Carrigan (PSA 5.5) with the corner crease.

I hear chatter, no scans.

[CMIZ5290]

Chad- i would think that a glued on corner would count.....

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

how about botn's sgc60 cobb with a piece of corner hanging out? it's not a crease, but does that count?

Sure, that counts.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=nippy

I deleted the scans, but you can read the thread and get the idea.

[glynparson]

and psa does allow wrinkles up to a 6, if a crease its a definite way overgrade.its overgraded as a wrinkle but not shocking to me. just because sgc does not allow wrinkles on 5s it does not mean sgc is not more lenient in some areas. In the past it was centering now it seems to be corners (except high end where they are just as tough but mid grade can have a wide range of wear,particularly sgc 60 cards. I am way more concerned with filed and trimmed cards then i am overgraded unaltered cards and that is where I feel left down the most.

Ps many people also need to realize standards have tightened considerably in the industry since psa's inception in 1992?( i think). Around 2000 i feel standards have jumped to the know sometimes unreasonable, for 8 anyways, standards (thus the survival of many card doctors).

[toppszl1]

I can only say what I've seen, my friend has an account with PSA, we sent 102 cards to them 4/10/12, we finally received them back 2 days ago, a gentlemen called my friend the account holder and told him that there's been a serious accident the encapsulating machine damaged 6 of our cards and they're going to send them back to regrade them I about fell over, after numerous calls to them about is our cards done he gets the call about 6 cards being damaged & he wasn't sure of who's cards got damaged, in the long run nobody wins, I will "never use PSA to grade my cards ever again!

Long story short my friends cards (6) got damaged and he was compensated $200.00

My 2nd story is now I've sent 10 cards to SGC about 2 weeks ago, Earl and the gang are great,,I was scared shitless on a shipping concern, I sent 10 cards priorty mail, with insurance and delivery confirmation, my 2 prized cards a 1958 Hank Aaron card white letter and a 1960 Mickey Mantle card and 8 other cards, I bought the 2 cards at a auction and both cards are stunning and centered..

Here's what happened and here's what I liked, I recieved delivery confirmation that the box got there, I called 2 days later and my order wasn't checked in, I called, they said they didn't get the order, I claimed the box is there, I'm sweating bullets, I'm thinking I sent a box to a building or suite and now the delivery is all messed up sent to the wrong floor, after a few phone calls with immediate response my cards were there, I recieved a customer number since I was brand new and they actually post the cards so you can review them and click on a link to get the pop report all in a few seconds, the team at SGC prevailed and now I'm waiting for the results, my cards have been there for about 2 1/2 weeks now.

Long story short, I'm on the east coast PSA doesn't have my business any more and yes the holder is more attractive in the SGC holder no matter what anybody says.

[CMIZ5290]

Toppsz? So what exactly are you saying? I am just confused on the point you are trying to make.....You said "long story short" 3 times.....Why are you happy when your cards have been at SGC for almost 3 weeks, and you have still not received them?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Toppsz? So what exactly are you saying? I am just confused on the point you are trying to make.....You said "long story short" 3 times.....Why are you happy when your cards have been at SGC for almost 3 weeks, and you have still not received them?

I'm guessing he sent them in on the post-1948 grading tier (just a guess since none of this month's specials apply to the cards he submitted) which is a 20 business day turnaround. His cards have been there about 13-14 business days. That means they won't pop for another week. What's is so confusing about that? Maybe to someone that is willing to wait 2-3 months on a PSA submission can't understand that, but I understood him just fine.