Can't slab--only one known?

gnaz01 · #1 06-30-2012, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew H

E125 is a known issue. Maybe they just haven't seen one of the cash clothing cards

I just assumed he meant there was no Johnson exemplar

glchen · #2 06-30-2012, 01:47 PM

There have been unique postcards that have been slabbed I think.

packs · #3 06-30-2012, 02:49 PM

Maybe they can't verify that it isn't a fantasy piece. Have you verified that there was a Cash Clothing Store in Sedgwick, Colorado?

Deertick · #4 06-30-2012, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Maybe they can't verify that it isn't a fantasy piece. Have you verified that there was a Cash Clothing Store in Sedgwick, Colorado?

Haven't found anything on The Clothing Store, but verified and Ira Dobson b.1866, resided in Sedgwick, Summit Co, Colorado in 1910. About the age to be a proprieter, no?

http://files.usgwarchives.net/co/sed...dgwick-a-l.txt

jim · #5 06-30-2012, 03:11 PM

Have you tried to get PSA to slab it?

glchen · #6 06-30-2012, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

Have you tried to get PSA to slab it?

PSA would not slab it. They are even more stringent than SGC and will only slab cards that are in the Standard Catalog or something equivalent.

jim · #7 06-30-2012, 08:09 PM

if neither of the top two will slab it, that says that they do not know it's authenticity. a future potential buyer will then have to rely, on what, for the piece to be real?

#8 06-30-2012, 03:13 PM

Any business even back then was registered. So if you can't find proof of existence of a clothing store then I would lean towards fantasy piece well done and neat looking. BTW isn't that pose from an exhibit?

Hankphenom · #9 06-30-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Any business even back then was registered. So if you can't find proof of existence of a clothing store then I would lean towards fantasy piece well done and neat looking. BTW isn't that pose from an exhibit?

Registered with whom? But you're on the right track--enough research, perhaps just a phone book, should reveal the existence of the Cash Clothing Store. Of course, what would that really prove, as a smart forger would certainly use a known entity for his concoction? Nobody with any experience seeing this card close up would need anybody else to tell them it's real and vintage, and for that reason I'm not concerned about whether it appears in the auction slabbed or not. In fact, I would use the fact that none of the TPAs could slab it for lack of another known example as a plus, showing that it could, indeed, be a true one-of-a-kind. I just find it strange that TPAs can never authenticate that kind of rarity, but I guess they have good reasons for that. BTW, I've seen this same artwork on two different pieces, a Crack-A-Jack uniforms salesman's sample book page and this one, cut out from a Faithorn Company (Chicago) calendar issued in 1912

Hankphenom · #10 06-30-2012, 03:54 PM

Here's the other image:

71buc · #11 06-30-2012, 05:04 PM

The artist is likely J.C Leyendecker. He was active during Johnson's era and specialized in Advertising art relating to men's fashion. Legendary auctions (see below) sold an item with the same image as part of a fabric catalog circa 1910. Whatever it is, it is very attractive example of baseball and advertising art from one of my favorite American illustrators congratulations on a great pick up and good luck with it.

http://www.americanartarchives.com/leyendecker,jc.htm

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...px?lotid=45003

#12 06-30-2012, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pup6913

State and local goverment. I could make fake cards using old pages from books and cardstock, period ink, and a small press. Does that make them real? It's all period except when it was made. With the right tools an enough knowledge and patience any body could recreate period/fantasy pieces

To add the state of CO has never had a business registered anywhere in the archives from 1900-1930's by that name. The Colorado public library also has no archives, newspaper adds, or anything else of any company by that name. Something is not adding up. Only the name of a man is all we have and his profession was not listed. Seems if he owned or ran a men's clothing shop that it would be something to mention right?

Hankphenom · #13 06-30-2012, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71buc

The artist is likely J.C Leyendecker. He was active during Johnson's era and specialized in Advertising art relating to men's fashion. Legendary auctions (see below) sold an item with the same image as part of a fabric catalog circa 1910. Whatever it is, it is very attractive example of baseball and advertising art from one of my favorite American illustrators congratulations on a great pick up and good luck with it.

http://www.americanartarchives.com/leyendecker,jc.htm

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...px?lotid=45003

Thanks, Mike. The artist signed the calendar piece, but I can't make it out, could be Krompton or Brompton, first initial might be J. What I'm having trouble with as far as TPA is this: just because a card is known to exist doesn't make any new example of it legit. Fakes and reprints abound. So to authenticate a newly presented example, the TPA has to look beyond the history of the issue and the image to all the other factors: materials used, evidence of aging, etc, all the forensic things I assume they do routinely. So why can't they just do the same forensics with a piece that has no other example? Seems pretty simple to me.

Batter67up · #14 06-30-2012, 06:14 PM

I went through the same issue in 2009 with the card below as both PSA and SGC had never seen it. I had to provide them information from a book from 1990 to show them details on it and it still took 3 weeks for them to decide to give it an Authentic Grade and a date of 1920's c. They would not give it a numeric grade even though the book provided specifications on the card. The book also showed this as a 1919 card. I did get some assistance from Dan McKee as he has a similiar card and provided pictures to them of it. Rob Lifson also gave me a call about the card and said it was authentic and he actually owned one back in the 70's and hadn't seen one since.

Exhibitman · #15 06-30-2012, 06:26 PM

I think they're being appropriately cautious. Back before they underwent all of the regime change the usual practice when they got a unique item was to call around to various people they know who are expert in the particular field [I used to get a lot of those calls from SGC over boxing cards] to get an ID and a verification on an item. I was also told that since I was the rolodex go-to guy on boxing issues, if I sent in something completely different they'd take my word for it. That said, what Steve says sounds about right in terms of approach [aside: I envy you that card, Steve; I was chasing it too if it is the one that was auctioned this last season]. Perhaps some of the people in the know here can intercede with SGC for you?

Deertick · #16 06-30-2012, 02:51 PM

Haven't I seen that they slabbed a generic "Trade Card" before? I agree, there should be a way for them to slab it Authentic without attribution to a specific run. Maybe they can't even pinpoint decade?

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