A possible solution for the PSA 8 T206 Wagner?

travrosty · #1 07-29-2012, 08:39 AM

The bigger issue, though, has nothing to do with what the Wagner would sell for if it is reholdered. As Barry noted, this Wagner has been the signature card of the hobby. Its currrent grade well symbolizes the fraud inherent iin our hobby. It's hypocrtitcal to urge the feds to bring indictments and act to clean up the hobby if the hobbyists themselves do not do their part. Anything other than insisting that this card be reholdered to reflect what in fact it is and putting pressure on all involved to see that to fruition would only bring more justified scorn on the hobby.

Corey, right on, the hobby has to insist every card and collector and hobbyist and grading standard is the same for everybody, every card, every time.

If we don't then we are saying that this collector, this card, this grade, in this instance, gets a pass, gets preferential treatment, and that is dangerous precedent.

It allows for more of it in the future, and like in autographs, we have been fighting this type of thing for years and years and it is the apathy of some who wish the status quo to continue or don't care one way or another that makes it harder and more drawn out to insist on reform so the hobby can show everyone that it has integrity.

if you are a guy getting a '70 reggie jackson 2nd year card graded, or a honus wagner t206, you are going to get the same service under the same standard and one card isn't worthy of fudging the numbers more than another.

but if billy crystal says, "this card is maaaaaavelous" so let's not insist it get graded according to the rules and standards, then it's our own fault and it will just take longer for reforms to come about.

autographs are a mess because of this and i would hope cards take the lead in insisting on integrity and labeling things an A, when they are an A, but maybe I am wrong. Maybe we get blinded by this one card so much we fall all over ourselves and we don't want the card to fall from grace. It needs to though before we can objectively make things better. It was trimmed.

The formally 2nd best condition card is now first place, and lets find out which one it is and crown that one the king. This one was a false claimant to the throne.

teetwoohsix · #2 07-29-2012, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travrosty

The bigger issue, though, has nothing to do with what the Wagner would sell for if it is reholdered. As Barry noted, this Wagner has been the signature card of the hobby. Its currrent grade well symbolizes the fraud inherent iin our hobby. It's hypocrtitcal to urge the feds to bring indictments and act to clean up the hobby if the hobbyists themselves do not do their part. Anything other than insisting that this card be reholdered to reflect what in fact it is and putting pressure on all involved to see that to fruition would only bring more justified scorn on the hobby.

Corey, right on, the hobby has to insist every card and collector and hobbyist and grading standard is the same for everybody, every card, every time.

If we don't then we are saying that this collector, this card, this grade, in this instance, gets a pass, gets preferential treatment, and that is dangerous precedent.

It allows for more of it in the future, and like in autographs, we have been fighting this type of thing for years and years and it is the apathy of some who wish the status quo to continue or don't care one way or another that makes it harder and more drawn out to insist on reform so the hobby can show everyone that it has integrity.

if you are a guy getting a '70 reggie jackson 2nd year card graded, or a honus wagner t206, you are going to get the same service under the same standard and one card isn't worthy of fudging the numbers more than another.

but if billy crystal says, "this card is maaaaaavelous" so let's not insist it get graded according to the rules and standards, then it's our own fault and it will just take longer for reforms to come about.

autographs are a mess because of this and i would hope cards take the lead in insisting on integrity and labeling things an A, when they are an A, but maybe I am wrong. Maybe we get blinded by this one card so much we fall all over ourselves and we don't want the card to fall from grace. It needs to though before we can objectively make things better. It was trimmed.

The formally 2nd best condition card is now first place, and lets find out which one it is and crown that one the king. This one was a false claimant to the throne.

Good post.

As far as reform goes, it has to start from within the person who is doing the deeds....if that doesn't happen, they won't stop.

Sincerely, Clayton

birdman42 · #3 07-31-2012, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travrosty

Corey, right on, the hobby has to insist every card and collector and hobbyist and grading standard is the same for everybody, every card, every time.

So PSA is going to review every card Mastro ever submitted? Not gonna happen. (Gratuitous reductio ad absurdum.)

Bill

travrosty · #4 07-31-2012, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdman42

So PSA is going to review every card Mastro ever submitted? Not gonna happen. (Gratuitous reductio ad absurdum.)

Bill

i was referring to carving out a special qualifier just to suit this card. since we know about this one being trimmed now, it should join the ranks of the Authentic/trimmed. this card may be special in the hobby, but it shouldnt be special in the card grading world. treat it the same.

drc · #5 07-31-2012, 12:18 PM

PSA8 Trimmed would make no sense. It would be like labeling a card Mint Poor. Or Up Down (Do I hear a Cat Dog anyone?). Nrrmt-Mt and altered are mutually exclusive terms-- the presence of one means the absence of the other.

And, yes, strip cards and Kellogg's cards that were intended to be hand cut are a different situation. That topic is a for another thread some day.

The practical issue is if the card is indeed 'hand cut' (using the term colloquially) and it is known by the seller that it is altered, then the seller has to detail its condition correctly at next sale. A significant event is how it is described next time it comes up for auction.

View Poll Results: Would having PSA 8 (Hand Cut) on the PSA 8 Wagner work?
yes	51	24.29%
no	159	75.71%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

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