T206 Blue Old Mill

srs1a · #1 08-02-2012, 07:56 PM

Interesting card, for sure and a tough front/back combination. I just looked and out of ~250 Walsh's graded by SGC there are only 2 Old Mills. I thought mine was the only one in SGC's pop report, but now there is a 2nd and it is a 30 -- perhaps that is the card under discussion. An image of mine is attached.

Regarding the comment about a weak border around the image, note that mine is missing a good chunk of the frame on the right side. Perhaps things got worse as they printed the OMs (and ran out of black ink

) Maybe I better run upstairs and see if I can squint enough to make my back blue, too!

Runscott · #2 08-02-2012, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srs1a

Interesting card, for sure and a tough front/back combination. I just looked and out of ~250 Walsh's graded by SGC there are only 2 Old Mills. I thought mine was the only one in SGC's pop report, but now there is a 2nd and it is a 30 -- perhaps that is the card under discussion. An image of mine is attached.

Regarding the comment about a weak border around the image, note that mine is missing a good chunk of the frame on the right side. Perhaps things got worse as they printed the OMs (and ran out of black ink

) Maybe I better run upstairs and see if I can squint enough to make my back blue, too!

I find this very interesting. Ten years ago I had several Old Mill backs that, if you had never seen a brown one before, you would have said were dark brown. But board members agreed that these were not the same as the lighter-brown 'official' brown Old Mill. They were, of course correct; however, my dark brown ones were at least as far away from the 'normal' black Old Mills as is this blue one.

atx840 · #3 08-02-2012, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

I find this very interesting. Ten years ago I had several Old Mill backs that, if you had never seen a brown one before, you would have said were dark brown.

+1 scan quality and lighting can make a big difference.

I took a chance on this Ellam, looked to be handcut and is a possible br OM combo...their scans vs mine.

steve B · #4 08-02-2012, 09:06 PM

A couple technical points to consider.

There are few common black pigments for printing inks, especially from the 1910 era. The common ones are carbon black and lampblack, both forms of carbon. Neither of those fades. And neither are prone to simple color changes.
Iron gall ink will initially write bluish black, but the real stuff will eventually turn brownish. And it's not typically used for printing. Pens yes, printing no.

India ink can also turn blue, but I've only heard of that on tattoos. And it also isn't used much in printing.

Green and brown are completely different, and can be changed/bleached.

The polar bear blue would have been made by mixing some blue with some black, possibly with other colors added.

I can think of a few scenarios where the wrong color might get used, and if they were producing millions of cards any one of them could have happened.
So it's a very interesting card for a lot of reasons.

Someone proving a point? Wow, if that's it they've done it. And if that's it our hobby just got very complex. I doubt it, but I suppose it's technically possible.

Steve B

2dueces · #5 08-02-2012, 09:44 PM

Just wierd that only one has surfaced in 100 years. Maybe printed on the same sheet as the Wags and Plank. They were printed in blue ink.

. Maybe that story of printed all those fakes in the 70's is not really a story. They were printed as jokes and impossible combinations so they couldnt fool any body. They all had a good laugh back then and I wonder if they are all having a good laugh at us now?

E93 · #6 08-03-2012, 01:32 AM

I examined the card closely today under a lighted loupe and believe it is legit. I compared it very carefully, back and forth, with a regular black Old Mill. There is no doubt it is blue and not faded black. It also seemed apparent to me that ink laid/adhered in the same way on both the black and the blue. In other words, the way the ink looked on the cardboard, other than being a different color, looked the same on the two. Everybody that saw in in person at the National, including many of the most knowledgeable people in the hobby agreed that it looked real.
JimB

Bocabirdman · #7 08-03-2012, 05:53 AM

This is the ONLY original. All of the rest of the Old Mill T-206 cards in the hobby are bogus.

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