Heritage Live Auction -- Black Swamp debacle

[Peter_Spaeth]

I guess we disagree then. Good discussion, interesting question.

[botn]

Once the cards were graded, the cat was out of the bag. Whether or not to disclose pop numbers in the auction descriptions was really moot. Do we know if the consignors told HA to sell all the cards at once or if they were looking for HA's opinion on the best disposition and HA informed them of all of the options?

When the breadth of the find was made public I made a comment on another thread that if it was HA's suggestion to grade all the cards at once and tell the scope of the find, that it was done not for the benefit of the consignor or their buyers but for the benefit of HA.

Sports collectibles are only one segment of their business. If they had graded these cards a few at a time, at the end of 5 years we could all look back and see how they mislead us, it would have a direct impact on their reputation among the buyers of all segments of their business. They knew the consignors were going to do just fine getting the cards graded all at once even if they were going to be leaving money on the table by not grading and selling these off a few at a time.

A house needs buyers, even if you have disclosed that you bid up your stuff and buried it in paragraph 21.

[David R]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I guess we disagree then. Good discussion, interesting question.

Agreed. Thanks.

[travrosty]

heritage would be idiots to not pile on the p.r. for their benefit? but the family is just suppose to take their medicine and be happy they got something?

its always the nice people that get applauded for taking less. why should they get less? it was a missed opportunity. this find is their ONLY chance. heritage will have million dollar bats, jerseys in the future, but this family has this one chance to split up the loot among 20 members.

People say that there are people out there whose lives aren't all about money. but they dont say that about auction houses. why? because auction houses are a business, they are suppose to maximize their profits and people say good for them.

The first thing this family should have done, is to incorporate into a business.

"black swamp find, inc." now they are a business too. and if "black swamp find inc." -as a business- did everything they could to maximize profits for their business, would that NOT be okay then?

people see old ladies and grandpa's and they salivate and lick their chops.

this was a missed opportunity by the family for not taking a little time to hire a couple of graders and consultants independently for their opinions on how to maximize their find on a contingency fee.

they could have turned that honus wagner 10 into a hobby icon. they didn't.

[bobbyw8469]

Well said Travis.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

heritage would be idiots to not pile on the p.r. for their benefit? but the family is just suppose to take their medicine and be happy they got something?

its always the nice people that get applauded for taking less. why should they get less? it was a missed opportunity. this find is their ONLY chance. heritage will have million dollar bats, jerseys in the future, but this family has this one chance to split up the loot among 20 members.

People say that there are people out there whose lives aren't all about money. but they dont say that about auction houses. why? because auction houses are a business, they are suppose to maximize their profits and people say good for them.

The first thing this family should have done, is to incorporate into a business.

"black swamp find, inc." now they are a business too. and if "black swamp find inc." -as a business- did everything they could to maximize profits for their business, would that NOT be okay then?

people see old ladies and grandpa's and they salivate and lick their chops.

this was a missed opportunity by the family for not taking a little time to hire a couple of graders and consultants independently for their opinions on how to maximize their find on a contingency fee.

they could have turned that honus wagner 10 into a hobby icon. they didn't.

I disagree with you on every single thing you said except the PR piece. What part of "it wasn't about the money to the family" don't you understand? They got less because they actually care about people. You really will never get it. It's just that simple.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by leon

they got less because they actually care about people.

lol

I was able to speak with the family right after the auction ended. Talk about some down to earth caring individuals. There biggest gain from this whole thing is that it reunited the family and brought bonds closer. It was never about the money or the recognition from the find. It all ended up making the hobby guys happy and the family happy. A win win IMO.

[autograf]

Bottom line.....on this board, Heritage could not have won. If they'd not disclosed all the cards in the find, they'd have been misleading the public. And while I like the OP and his doggedness on stuff like this, he would likely have been one of the people flaming them for not disclosing everything. If they do as they did and disclaim it, then they're not seeking the most for their clients. Geez....we can't have it both ways, can we?

My personal opinion, which, with $4.00 might buy you a cup of coffee.....is they did it the right way, grading all of them, disclosing the totals of each card and beginning to sell them off in groups at intervals over the next few years. Will the next group bring what that group did? Who knows. I think some of the family members are planning on keeping their groups or near sets from what I heard. So all 700+ may not see the hobby light of day immediately. Some of the people may not need that $150-$200K immediately. The money means a lot to a lot of people but some people may have the sentimentality of keeping something that their grandmother or great grandmother or father put away. Who knows. Like others, I've heard the family is happy with the results. Not sure if that $566K will be split among the 22 or if it was just one person's share or something. I'm sure the financials of it all are complicated and among the family.

Kudos to Heritage for doing it the way they did it.....

I STILL don't particularly like them bidding on their own auctions though as I think that could be fraught with issues. That's another issue for another thread though.....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

I was able to speak with the family right after the auction ended. Talk about some down to earth caring individuals. There biggest gain from this whole thing is that it reunited the family and brought bonds closer. It was never about the money or the recognition from the find. It all ended up making the hobby guys happy and the family happy. A win win IMO.

The family would have been just as reunited if the cards had gone for more.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

lol

You're laughing sarcastically at Leon? Treat the man with some respect. He provides this forum for you to come on here and talk about how brilliant you are.

P.S. It's easy to be brilliant when you can criticize auction houses for disclosing too much and disclosing too little.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

You're laughing sarcastically at Leon? Treat the man with some respect. He provides this forum for you to come on here and talk about how brilliant you are.

P.S. It's easy to be brilliant when you can criticize auction houses for disclosing too much and disclosing too little.

Actually I was laughing at your blog.

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by Leon

I disagree with you on every single thing you said except the PR piece. What part of "it wasn't about the money to the family" don't you understand? They got less because they actually care about people. You really will never get it. It's just that simple.

Leon, some people will never understand where the family is coming from