new member introduction

[danski496]

My momma always told me if I didn't have anything nice to say then I shouldn't say it. Interesting thread though. BTW, I still have a huge box of real nice graded cards my bought me from SAH, I figured I'd hold onto it just in case I ran out of firewood.

[keithsky]

I don't know Ken Golding but people accussing him of selling over priced cards isn't any different than people selling PSA, Beckett or SGC cards. If you were selling a card not slabbed by these companies it would be far less than a slabbed card so your first thought is i'll send it to them to get it slabbed to make more money on it. Same thing he did. You know a Mantle rookie not slabbed is no where near a slabbed PSA card.

[barrysloate]

The issue wasn't that he was selling overpriced cards, it's that the cards were essentially worthless. If you want to pay $100 for a $50 card, that's fine and it's certainly not unusual. But would anybody want to pay $50 for cards that were worth pennies? I don't think anybody would say that is a fair transaction.

[tothrk]

I agree with Barry. He was pushing mass produced cards which were worth pennies at their peak. He wasn't selling overpriced Mantles and Clemente's. He was basically selling trash. In the end, I'm not sure any of it matters because if he gets premium consignments everyone will bid in his auctions no matter what they think he did or is doing.

[FirstYearCards]

As a collector for 20+ years, I've dealt with good and bad. Simplest way to deal with a situation like this: If you see a deal, go for it. If you fear a scam, leave well enough alone and move on.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The issue wasn't that he was selling overpriced cards, it's that the cards were essentially worthless. If you want to pay $100 for a $50 card, that's fine and it's certainly not unusual. But would anybody want to pay $50 for cards that were worth pennies? I don't think anybody would say that is a fair transaction.

Why were they worth pennies? If people were paying $100 for the cards than it seems like they were worth $100 at the time. If he was shill bidding or altering the cards to get them into higher graded holders your argument would have more merit. We have enough garbage running auction houses that perhaps before we go after the guys who simply engage in massive puffery we should focus on the guys who break federal and state laws while running their auctions. By the way, I'm not certain the Shamwow is worth $19.99 either -- but if someone is willing to pay for it because the guy hawking them is persuasive then so be it.

Oh and a disclaimer: I don't know anyone associated with Goldin Auctions, I've never consigned with him, partnered with him, or given him cards and watched with delight as he shill bid the cards through the stratosphere.

[bijoem]

I'm not with you on this point.

I don't think people's willingness to pay is a good measure of something's worth (considering the willingness is guided by misleading sales tactics or puffery as you call it).

If I sell you fool's gold and tell you it is real gold.... and you and enough people buy it.... does that mean fool's gold value is the same as real gold?

Originally Posted by calvindog

Why were they worth pennies? If people were paying $100 for the cards than it seems like they were worth $100 at the time. If he was shill bidding or altering the cards to get them into higher graded holders your argument would have more merit. We have enough garbage running auction houses that perhaps before we go after the guys who simply engage in massive puffery we should focus on the guys who break federal and state laws while running their auctions. By the way, I'm not certain the Shamwow is worth $19.99 either -- but if someone is willing to pay for it because the guy hawking them is persuasive then so be it.

Oh and a disclaimer: I don't know anyone associated with Goldin Auctions, I've never consigned with him, partnered with him, or given him cards and watched with delight as he shill bid the cards through the stratosphere.

[cmcclelland]

Delete

i am deleting the message...

[botn]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Why were they worth pennies? If people were paying $100 for the cards than it seems like they were worth $100 at the time. If he was shill bidding or altering the cards to get them into higher graded holders your argument would have more merit. We have enough garbage running auction houses that perhaps before we go after the guys who simply engage in massive puffery we should focus on the guys who break federal and state laws while running their auctions. By the way, I'm not certain the Shamwow is worth $19.99 either -- but if someone is willing to pay for it because the guy hawking them is persuasive then so be it.

Oh and a disclaimer: I don't know anyone associated with Goldin Auctions, I've never consigned with him, partnered with him, or given him cards and watched with delight as he shill bid the cards through the stratosphere.

Sorry I'm late but I am confused, Jeff. For 2 days you have telling me privately something completely different. Did Kenny just give pay you a retainer or has my reading comprehension dropped...even more? I have never seen a guy on all 3 sides of a fence before. You are a wizard!!!!

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by botn

Sorry I'm late but I am confused, Jeff. For 2 days you have telling me privately something completely different. Did Kenny just give pay you a retainer or has my reading comprehension dropped...even more? I have never seen a guy on all 3 sides of a fence before. You are a wizard!!!!

That's not true at all. I made it very clear that I think the videos, the hawking of the crap was bad -- and I told you that your criticism was welcomed and valid. I'm just disappointed in the difference in the board reaction to Ken compared with Mastro, Allen, etc., guys who stole from everyone HERE by using fraudulent means which rose to the level of violations of federal criminal law. The response for the past seven years and even following their indictment and the revelation of Bill's apparent cooperation with the Feds has been tepid at best for reasons you personally know: that board members here made money with Mastro as they turned a blind eye to the fraud as their consignments went through the roof. And while Ken deserves the criticism it just strikes me as a bit bizarre that suddenly the pitch forks and torches are out and while his actions are borderline, I don't see them nearly rising to the level of what would be needed to indict him for mail or wire fraud.

[Peter_Spaeth]

--

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

... Mastro, Allen, etc., guys who stole from everyone HERE by using fraudulent means which rose to the level of violations of federal criminal law. ...

Allegedly

The sad irony of the original subject at issue is that "just" being a shameless huckster with a tawdry past hawking overpriced crap to nitwits is a glowing resume by comparison to the scumbags running some of the other AHs.