new member introduction

[cobblove]

Did i read this right?

They said they offered a T206 Honus wagner to be pulled out of the product they sold.
And they also had a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle that was also posible to be pulled out of there product.

And only the 1952 Topps Mantle was given away and not the T206 Wagner..

They kept the wagner???

No where in this question did I say Ken did this. I said (they) the people who offered this deal...? I know it was offered there but saw it was never given out. I am not saying Ken was part of this deal in any way.

[7nohitter]

**Information has been brought to my attention which indicates that Goldin was not on SAH in 1990...apparently West was shilling with someone else in 1990...**

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

**Information has been brought to my attention which indicates that Goldin was not on SAH in 1990...apparently West was shilling with someone else in 1990...**

Are you thinking of his co-host, Eddy Lewis?

[scgaynor]

"As he was seen as recently as April doing the same crap on AAN tv."

Did you actually see him on AANTV or just Goldin Sports products with Goldin hologram and cert. It is my understanding that Ken does not sell on AANTV has never appeared on that network.

A poster Nate Adams mentioned seeing him earlier too, however I don't understand how that is possible. It is possible that he just don't know what Ken looks like and maybe it was a misunderstanding. If so, his post should be edited.

Scott

[Peter_Spaeth]

As post 188 makes clear, people should be careful with their facts, because a retraction doesn't always have the visibility of the initial post.

[RobertGT]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As post 188 makes clear, people should be careful with their facts, because a retraction doesn't always have the visibility of the initial post.

+1
Lots of unsubstantiated stuff being thrown around in this thread without regard to the actual facts. Can you prove what you are saying? Or is that just what you think? I work in newspapers, and if we ever published the word "con artist" next to someone's name with no official attribution, court disposition or documentation backing up that claim, we would be sued for millions of dollars.

I bet Goldin and his lawyers are now paying very close attention to this thread and what is being said here.

Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, traducement, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation a negative or inferior image. This can be also any disparaging statement made by one person about another, which is communicated or published, whether true or false, depending on legal state. In Common Law it is usually a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed (the claimant).

[botn]

Originally Posted by scgaynor

"As he was seen as recently as April doing the same crap on AAN tv."

Did you actually see him on AANTV or just Goldin Sports products with Goldin hologram and cert. It is my understanding that Ken does not sell on AANTV has never appeared on that network.

A poster Nate Adams mentioned seeing him earlier too, however I don't understand how that is possible. It is possible that he just don't know what Ken looks like and maybe it was a misunderstanding. If so, his post should be edited.

Scott

It appears Nate retracted his entire post and probably the other post he made on another thread in which he refers to Goldin being on AAN tv. So Goldin's company nor Goldin are profiting from the sales of these products to which Nate was referring?

[scgaynor]

Originally Posted by botn

It appears Nate retracted his entire post and probably the other post he made on another thread in which he refers to Goldin being on AAN tv. So Goldin's company nor Goldin are profiting from the sales of these products to which Nate was referring?

Goldin Collectibles sells wholesale to venders who in turn resell at a higher price. I am sure that he made something on the original sale.

Scott

[wonkaticket]

My last post on this topic....

Robert....that’s a quick way to solidify your place in the auction world sue your future customers. That would surely make folks feel right at home and ready to place bids and hand over consignments.

I don’t see all that much leap of faith statements in here. I don’t see too much in the way of true slander either but I’m no attorney so I’ll let them chime in I think we have one or two here.

Videos are there everyone here knows that the SAH home days were over the top. Even Ken himself admitted it in this thread it “it was how it was done”. He calls it an “aggressive sales style” but any hobbyist with even a simply understanding of collecting knows that “aggressive sales style” equated to inflated claims, crazy hyped pitches that just didn’t quite add up and in some cases out right misinformation.

Examples selling cards today for 2k because next month lesser cards will be worth twice that…in talks of values quotes from Don West to Ken, “Honus Wagner only has like 4 cards” we all know Honus appears in more issues than that etc. etc.

Look we all laughed because we all for the most part are in the hobby and were not sold on the crazy pitches. It was as one person said entertainment a guilty pleasure if you will. For Shop at Home it was a business and a profitable one that Ken benefited from like it or not.

But there is an ugly side to this that we seem to be forgetting here that’s deeper than Ken and his new venture.

There were lots of folks who weren’t in the hobby. There were plenty of people who took these Shop at Home gentleman at their word as experts. These innocent people made justified buying decisions based upon inflated claims and so called trusted expert pipe dreams. To me anything that is spun from the root of the truth to inflate or get more out of something is a basic con sorry if you feel different. May not be illegal but can be called unethical.

Sadly many of these innocent people were left holding a worthless bag. That bag was meant to be a nest egg, a father son bonding experience etc. what a horrible taste to leave in someone’s mouth about our beloved hobby. What a message to send to future generations of collectors who we all depend on for the values of our own collections.

I never claimed Ken was at the root of all Shop at Home games. However he was present and accounted for on a few. The videos are public record.

Those for me in my personal opinion were enough for me to not trust or want to do business with Ken and his company and to voice that view here. Where he announced his business open to his potential customers (me).

I think the videos are to me an insight of where Ken used to draw the line and most likely draws the line today.

If the line for Ken has moved great and good for him! However it’s on him to prove that to his new customers, not on me to bend my position.

Cheers,

John

[cmcclelland]

I am sure Nate probably retracted his post because "Tough Guy" Goldin most likely sent him a message threatening to have his lawyers contact him.

Just a little legal advice for everyone - any action for defamation, slander, etc. would require that someone INTENTIONALLY state something that they know to be FALSE about the other person thereby inuring the other person's reputation.

These elements would all cause problems for Mr. Goldin if he ever tried to pursue this type of action based on the statements I've read on this board so far. First, nothing I've read appears to be something that any reasonable person could think was intentionally stated when it was known to be false. Second, it would be tough to argue that Mr. Goldin's reputation has been injured by statements on this board since he has already done so much to injure his reputation himself based on his past actions and business practices. Just the youtube video alone is probably enough for a reasonable person to believe that Mr. Goldin's reputation was already at such a low level that nothing here could change that for the worse.

[botn]

Originally Posted by scgaynor

Goldin Collectibles sells wholesale to venders who in turn resell at a higher price. I am sure that he made something on the original sale.

Scott

Thanks Scott.

Seems I was wrong. Nate's post is still there.

[cmcclelland]

Originally Posted by cobblove

Did i read this right?

They said they offered a T206 Honus wagner to be pulled out of the product they sold.
And they also had a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle that was also posible to be pulled out of there product.

And only the 1952 Topps Mantle was given away and not the T206 Wagner..

They kept the wagner???

I would really like to know the answer to this question. Mr. "Tough Guy" Goldin - since this is a purely factual question - maybe you would care to answer? Or maybe you will threaten to sick your lawyer on my again for even bringing it up?

[Jlighter]

Can someone post a video or a link to a video from SAH with Goldin because I have looked and still not found one?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

Can someone post a video or a link to a video from SAH with Goldin because I have looked and still not found one?

#43

[scgaynor]

Did SB have the Wagner? Obviously they did, it is in the video which is posted in message #43. And David Kohler can confirm it, he sold it to SB in 1997. Also, there is a post in this long thread detailing that Ken left SB in the summer of 1997 (which is reported in public documents). The company went bankrupt in April 1998, and the Wagner card, presumably, along with all the other unclaimed redemptions were sold at a bankruptcy auction in 1999. All of this is in message #48 and in public records.

Also back in #173 you asked "Does make me wonder about the ethics of the other people who are involved with him. No way his partners cannot know about who this guy is, is there? "

There is a bit of irony in this question. I am not a financial partner, but the reason that I am involved in helping Ken with this is that his vision of what he wants Goldin Auctions to be is exactly the opposite of what you envision. Ken and I have had discussion about what an auction should be like. If his vision was an auction of puffery, cards graded by no name people and items of questionable authenticity, I would not have anything to do with it. Alot of people on this board (most?) have done business with me and know that I don't get involved with people who deal in fakes.

As I said before, it would seem to make sense that you let the catalog come out, and if you see problems, then speak up.

Scott

[botn]

Originally Posted by scgaynor

Did SB have the Wagner? Obviously they did, it is in the video which is posted in message #43.

Could not watch the video, Scott. Guess I do not have your constitution.

Originally Posted by scgaynor

Also back in #173 you asked "Does make me wonder about the ethics of the other people who are involved with him. No way his partners cannot know about who this guy is, is there? "

There is a bit of irony in this question.

Please elaborate on the irony, Scott.

Originally Posted by scgaynor

As I said before, it would seem to make sense that you let the catalog come out, and if you see problems, then speak up.

I do not follow your logic at all. I saw Mastro's and Legendary's catalogs for years. Apparently there was no mention in the catalog that they were going to be indicted. How does a catalog tell me about the integrity of the auction house? Also you seem a bit defensive. Thanks for the info on the Wagner, however.

[scgaynor]

The irony is stated in the paragraph. The part that you edited out. You question my ethics, and the ethics of Ken Goldin, but the auction is going to be run in the most ethical of manners (the opposite of what you envision). Irony as defined by Webster "incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result."

"I do not follow your logic at all. I saw Mastro's and Legendary's catalogs for years. Apparently there was no mention in the catalog that they were going to be indicted. How does a catalog tell me about the integrity of the auction house?"

If your concern, as I understand it, is with puffery and authenticity, the catalog will tell you all that you need to know.

Scott

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by scgaynor

Alot of people on this board (most?) have done business with me and know that I don't get involved with people who deal in fakes.

...

Scott

I used Scott to sell quite a bit of stuff around eight years ago. Among the items were two postcards that had been sold to me by a very reputable board member. I thought they might be fakes, but I said nothing to Scott before sending them in with the other stuff. Scott was reputable, so I figured if they were okay with him, then I might be mistaken.

He sent them back to me (only the two postcards) and said that he did not feel comfortable with them - couldn't say exactly what was wrong with them, but they didn't look 'good' to him.

I completely respect Scott and his auctions.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I used Scott to sell quite a bit of stuff around eight years ago. Among the items were two postcards that had been sold to me by a very reputable board member. I thought they might be fakes, but I said nothing to Scott before sending them in with the other stuff. Scott was reputable, so I figured if they were okay with him, then I might be mistaken.

He sent them back to me (only the two postcards) and said that he did not feel comfortable with them - couldn't say exactly what was wrong with them, but they didn't look 'good' to him.

I completely respect Scott and his auctions.

Did you ever find out if the postcards were legit? What were they, if you don't mind me asking?

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

#43

Thanks, skipped over a few of the threads pages.

[botn]

Originally Posted by cmcclelland

I would really like to know the answer to this question. Mr. "Tough Guy" Goldin - since this is a purely factual question - maybe you would care to answer? Or maybe you will threaten to sick your lawyer on my again for even bringing it up?

Yesterday morning Goldin posted the following: "To address one last question that was raised, on post 48 I outlined my departure from SB in 1997, as well as fact that I was not with the company when redemptions were due (including the Wagner card) so I cannot answer as to the outcome that John White CEO of SB did with the card."

Not sure how much weight we can actually put on Goldin's word, at this point, since getting divorced, remarried and having two daughters has not actually made him any different than he was prior to those events. I think the first question to answer is did SB ever have the Wagner. He certainly should have been at SB long enough to know that much.