This is the problem with grading...

Peter_Spaeth · #1 08-16-2012, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Pank21 (Joseph Pankiewicz) was a former grader at SGC. That much I know. He probably knows other graders that work for PSA and he's able to get bumps as backroom favors. I also know he shill his own auctions. Probstein may or may not be aware of what's going on.

Given what we know to be true, what's your theory?

It is irresponsible to suggest on the basis of three cards, only one of which is worth any serious money, that PSA is handing out bumps as backroom favors. He probably buys lots of cards he thinks are undergraded, as do lots of people. It's a common practice. So one one of them, PSA overgraded it, the other two grades don't look that far off to me. How do you know he didn't crack them out and resubmit, which is what lots of guys are out there doing? I am not buying your conspiracy theories on the basis of three cards. Way too speculative for me.

vintagetoppsguy · #2 08-16-2012, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It is irresponsible to suggest on the basis of three cards, only one of which is worth any serious money, that PSA is handing out bumps as backroom favors. He probably buys lots of cards he thinks are undergraded, as do lots of people. It's a common practice. So one one of them, PSA overgraded it, the other two grades don't look that far off to me. How do you know he didn't crack them out and resubmit, which is what lots of guys are out there doing? I am not buying your conspiracy theories on the basis of three cards. Way too speculative for me.

I guess you think the PSA 8 Wagner was on the up and up too?

What about him shilling his own auction? Oh, wait a minute. It's probably another bidder with a similiar username that happens to have the same feedback.

vintagetoppsguy · #3 08-16-2012, 09:29 PM

Peter, you're obviously way smarter than me, so how do you explain this:

Pank21 wins this card from Probstein for $48.99
http://www.ebay.com/itm/140758703188

But Probstein relists the same card with a BIN of $99.99
http://www.ebay.com/itm/110915770722

You think 'ol Panky just changed his mind and didn't want it?

Peter_Spaeth · #4 08-16-2012, 09:33 PM

Well that is a completely different issue, David. If there were multiple examples of that, you might be onto something. i also could think of an innocent explanation but you probably don't want to hear it. That explanation would be that he won the card real cheap and thinks Rick can double his money for him on a BIN.

vintagetoppsguy · #5 08-16-2012, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That explanation would be that he won the card real cheap and thinks Rick can double his money for him on a BIN.

You're right, I do that all the time. I win an eBay auction and then tell the seller, 'You just keep that and re-list it for me with a BIN of double the price of what I won it for."

Peter_Spaeth · #6 08-16-2012, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You're right, I do that all the time. I win an eBay auction and then tell the seller, 'You just keep that and re-list it for me with a BIN of double the price of what I won it for."

well David, you seem desperate for a conspiracy theory here, so maybe your third one is right, who knows

Clutch-Hitter · #7 08-16-2012, 10:38 PM

1. Same seller sold the cards both times
2. Sales occurred in a small time frame
3. Same buyer in original auctions
4. Cards appeared with grade increases second time
5. The original buyer was a dealer(?), yet had someone else sell
....what else? And a list for realistic explanations?

Well, too many to be called a conspiracy theory as it is...although an unfound conclusion can be reached. In this case, the conspiracy theory would rest on the positive side; the side trying to rationalize all the highly suspicious activity as normal, at least before the team spoke up with the truth as they saw it.

I don't believe that psa did favors specifically. I do believe they are unaware of who submitted, but they do know if one person submitted many cards. They would know specifically who submitted at a show, I guess. Sounds like they were cracked and submitted in bulk, with a single, busy grader dealing with all of them.

I would not think the sgc guy submitted to psa, sounds more like the seller doing that, possibly on behalf of the sgc guy, which could be articulated differently. I initially thought this was similar to that major auction house shilling on their own auctions, with this seller in business with the sgc guy, but was highly relieved when they, like the auction house, explained there was no wrong doing. Very relieved.

It never hurts to check things out since greed can enable people to rationalize unethical behavior as normal, necessary, etc, which may be followed through on...with a pre-meditated alibi...if, then BS. Thank goodness all of it added up to nothing, just a list of odd coincidences...

smtjoy · #8 08-16-2012, 10:38 PM

Im less concerned about PSA for all I know the grader at the National made a mistake and let a weak 9 at best get in a 10 holder or card could have gotten a micro shave after being cracked and then resubmitted and deserved the 10 or worse a grader is on the take with this seller (all theories but greed is powerful). The bad side of grading for sure, facts are an 8 going to a 10, ouch.

What still has not been answered is there was clearly shilling on the two cards and nothing from probstein123 about his policy towards when a consignor is caught shilling their auction and how he plans to handle the consignor? It clearly breaks ebay rules, possibly the law, the silence is deafening.

calvindog · #9 08-16-2012, 09:30 PM

That Ken Goldin is a real son of a bitch. I'm sure this is his fault.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 08-16-2012, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

That Ken Goldin is a real son of a bitch. I'm sure this is his fault.

It was Mastro and Allen!!!

calvindog · #11 08-16-2012, 09:38 PM

Stop bullying me!

55koufax · #12 11-13-2023, 06:48 PM

I've seen Joe up close and personal. He definitely will crack out, press corners, edges, etc., and re-submit to PSA on anything he thinks has a chance. What I learned is that SGC graders (at least back in the day) would always press corners, edges as necessary B4 grading a subbed card, whereby, PSA does absolutely nothing of the kind. That said, it makes perfect sense for P21, or anyone to practice the "art" of cracking out and re-subbing to PSA. I am guessing a multitude of collectors on this very thread do it. I admit I do...

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