This is the problem with grading...

egbeachley · #1 08-19-2012, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm not going to argue whether or not Probstein knew his consignors were shilling their own auctions. I can't prove he did, you can't prove he didn't. Either way, ignorance is no excuse. However, here is the bottom line: NOW, HE KNOWS! He's been made aware of the fact. How he handles the situation from here will tell us everything we need to know about his character. So far, I've only heard crickets.

I assume the last thing he will do is post his response on this Board.

CMIZ5290 · #2 08-19-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egbeachley

i assume the last thing he will do is post his response on this board.

he does not need to post any response on this board. Accusations were made by david james without any proof. If david james is certain that this has been going, where is the proof?? You don't accuse someone of something purely on speculation. Alot of this quite frankly sounds like sour grapes to me.....

botn · #3 08-19-2012, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

You don't accuse someone of something purely on speculation.

Not suggesting that is what David is doing but sadly THAT is what goes on here all too often--lots of personal agendas get played out here to the detriment of certain people's reputations. All the while certain criminal elements in the hobby are spared.

egbeachley · #4 08-19-2012, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

he does not need to post any response on this board.

That's what I am saying.

And I do think that ignorance is an excuse.....there is no way he could be monitoring his auctions for shilling accounts that he probably doesn't even know who it is. If I start consigning for people and I see H****6 (183) making an early bid on one my auctions, how am I supposed to know that may be one of my consignor's accounts?

But from what I hear about Rick and his reputation, I'm sure he will tell him to not shill on his consignments. Not sure what good that will do it he has other accounts.

vintagetoppsguy · #5 08-19-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Accusations were made by david james without any proof. If david james is certain that this has been going, where is the proof??

Kevin, do you want proof? Okay, give me just a few minutes and I'll have your proof. In the meantime, go take your meds so you can fully comprehend what I'm about to lay out before you.

nolemmings · #6 08-19-2012, 03:59 PM

Quote:

But from what I hear about Rick and his reputation, I'm sure he will tell him to not shill on his consignments. Not sure what good that will do it he has other accounts.

What he should do is refuse to take any more consignments from the shiller--why agree to profit from a known cheater?

brob28 · #7 08-19-2012, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

What he should do is refuse to take any more consignments from the shiller--why agree to profit from a known cheater?

Yes Sir! If I was in Rick's shoes I would do exactly that (assuming I (Rick) agreed shilling took place). I think he has a lot to gain & maintain by refusing more consignments from the shiller. He has potentially more to lose by continuing with him. With the amount of business he does I can't believe one consignor would put a dent in his business. However, keep in mind he can't start banning every consignor that is accused of shilling - he has to be sure.

Matthew H · #8 08-19-2012, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brob28

Yes Sir! If I was in Rick's shoes I would do exactly that (assuming I (Rick) agreed shilling took place). I think he has a lot to gain & maintain by refusing more consignments from the shiller. He has potentially more to lose by continuing with him. With the amount of business he does I can't believe one consignor would put a dent in his business. However, keep in mind he can't start banning every consignor that is accused of shilling - he has to be sure.

All he has to do is check the bid history. Bidder IDs are not hidden from the seller. I'd be surprised if he hasn't checked yet.

CMIZ5290 · #9 08-19-2012, 04:05 PM

David- you are the one that just said you had no proof! Besides, like the last post said, how in the world can this guy possibly monitor the amount of auctions he has to deal with?

calvindog · #10 08-19-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

David- you are the one that just said you had no proof! Besides, like the last post said, how in the world can this guy possibly monitor the amount of auctions he has to deal with?

Agreed. But it's just as clear that fraud occurred in his auctions. Is it asking so much for Rick to address such an issue that he clearly has knowledge of at this point?

Peter_Spaeth · #11 08-19-2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Agreed. But it's just as clear that fraud occurred in his auctions. Is it asking so much for Rick to address such an issue that he clearly has knowledge of at this point?

Would you advise a client to come on this Board and address issues?

calvindog · #12 08-19-2012, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Would you advise a client to come on this Board and address issues?

If he had done nothing wrong and had nothing to hide? Of course.

vintagetoppsguy · #13 08-19-2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

David- you are the one that just said you had no proof! Besides, like the last post said, how in the world can this guy possibly monitor the amount of auctions he has to deal with?

And here comes the spin. Kevin, if I said I had no proof that he knew about it, then why are you asking me for proof? I thought you were asking me for proof whether or not the auction was shilled. Clearly it was. Probstein has now been made aware of the fact. So, what's he going to do about it? As someone that has bid on his items and purchased from him, I think I have the right to know. After all, who's to say I wasn't shilled in one of his auctions?

vintagetoppsguy · #14 08-19-2012, 04:21 PM

Peter,

If you read that thread on CU (which has since been deleted), he did respond to the questions about the bumps. However, when he was asked about the shilling, he dummied up real quick and didn't say another word. Why would he choose to address some issues and not others?

Peter_Spaeth · #15 08-19-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter,

If you read that thread on CU (which has since been deleted), he did respond to the questions about the bumps. However, when he was asked about the shilling, he dummied up real quick and didn't say another word. Why would he choose to address some issues and not others?

What did he say about the bumps, I didn't see it pre-poofery.

WhenItWasAHobby · #16 08-19-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter,

If you read that thread on CU (which has since been deleted), he did respond to the questions about the bumps. However, when he was asked about the shilling, he dummied up real quick and didn't say another word. Why would he choose to address some issues and not others?

It appears that the seller's response was copied on Post #10 of this thread.

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