Relentless Negativity

[packs]

Nothing wrong with outing frauds. It's good for everyone to know who is selling fakes and what to stay away from. That's what I liked about the recent Drew Max thread. A board member carefully broke down what to look for in a baseball fabricated to look vintage.

However, in that thread certain board members also took the opportunity to relentlessly insult each other for another 4 or 5 pages, which is what, 50 posts? And by the time they put their rulers away the valuable information was buried.

There is such a thing as people doing more harm than good. Whenever I see a few posters in a thread I tend to avoid it without even reading whats going on. I'm sure I'm not alone.

[T206Collector]

Also, there are a lot of "experts" on here that like to share their opinions about whether an autograph is real or not. Why would you share your collection if you can expect a few people to chime in about how the signature doesn't look right to them?

Probably comes with the territory, but could you imagine if every time you showed a T206 card on the forum that two or three people were like, "Looks trimmed to me" or "Lettering seems off, might be a reprint". No one would share any more. And it would discourage collecting.

[bluebirds]

Leon has the right idea in making people post full names in these mud slinging contests. However, "Joe Blow" in Texas calling "Harry Hinkle" in Boston doesn't cut it with me. Don't say anything on here you WOULDN'T SAY TO A PERSON FACE TO FACE. If this rule was followed the negativity would greatly decrease and some of the phony "self-appointed" hobby saviors would disappear like the hot air some of them are. But then again the moon might touch the earth tonight if that happened.

Martin Green

[bluebirds]

Second sentence in previous post should have said: "Joe Blow" in Texas CALLING "Harry Hinkle" in Boston a name doesn't cut it.
Martin Green

[TyrusRCobb]

I joined this forum in late July and found that the vast majority of people very helpful indeed. However, I also felt attacked buy a few members. Perhaps they found my newbie questions and lack of knowledge annoying, I'm not sure. I even responded to such a post by hurling insults at a man I've never met, it was an embarrassing act on my part. Since that post I've written a two line response to a Bob Feller image which was posted and I posted an image in response to a poster's question. Frankly, being new and lacking knowledge, I don't want to post because I don't want to be attacked again.

[David Atkatz]

Keep on posting, Adam. (The image of the Eddie Bennett-signed ball was very useful. Do you own it?)

[JimStinson]

Interesting thread here and I like it , I was away for the weekend and was not going to post much because I too felt that there started to involve negative issues and comments , There were a couple of times that even my own attempts at levity in hindsight seemed ill mannered and ill timed.
The best thing I can add to this thread is what the late George Sanders said to me once. George and Helen used to put out all the autograph price guides and he had been a celebrity in his own right having his own radio show and had personally met and interviewed and gotten the autographs of Dr. Martin Luther King, JFK, everyone that was anyone in the 1950's and 1960's. I would usually write the introduction on Baseball autographs for his books. I was also doing free lance writing on sports in general and autographs in particular and he told me this

"People will want to hear about the NEGATIVE side of collecting, Don;t give it to them. If you can't write anything good about the hobby don't write NOTHING at all because There is MORE than enough good to go around and if you wrote from now until you couldn;t write anymore about NOTHING but the positive experiences you've had in autograph collecting you STILL would not have time to write about all of it"

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Keep on posting, Adam. (The image of the Eddie Bennett-signed ball was very useful. Do you own it?)

Wrong Adam; I don't even know who Eddie Bennett is.

[TyrusRCobb]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Keep on posting, Adam. (The image of the Eddie Bennett-signed ball was very useful. Do you own it?)

Thanks Doc. I wish the ball was mine! Having read the OP I did some searching and found the image.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by TyrusRCobb

I joined this forum in late July and found that the vast majority of people very helpful indeed. However, I also felt attacked buy a few members. Perhaps they found my newbie questions and lack of knowledge annoying, I'm not sure. I even responded to such a post by hurling insults at a man I've never met, it was an embarrassing act on my part. Since that post I've written a two line response to a Bob Feller image which was posted and I posted an image in response to a poster's question. Frankly, being new and lacking knowledge, I don't want to post because I don't want to be attacked again.

Many of us have been there. Live and learn, but keep posting.

(BTW-sometimes it is newbie questions and your actually HAVING knowledge - it can threaten the old-timers and they end up resorting to spraying the walls with their scent.)

[tinkereversandme]

I belong to several collectible forums and this one is hands down filedl with so much constant nastiness and anger. I have been attacked for asking simple newbie questions. I have developed friendships with certain members who have been amazing in asking my questions but I really wish that there was more helpful people and less angry and insulting ones. Certain posters I know (and talk to privately) refrain from posting much because of all the mud slinging and that;s a shame. Any person who uses profane language, insults or brings forth something that could be considered detrimental to the site should get the boot until they can play nice with others.

Regards,

Larry

[alexautographs]

Profane language has no place on any forum. If the members can't agree to be civil, they can PM each other, and threaten to kill each other's dogs, or whatever....

None of you know me, except Jim, Shelly and Travis - but my credentials outside of this forum are, IMHO, well proven.

You good people have a choice:

a.) Tear each other to bits over whose authenticator is best, or;
b.) Work for the common good.

I obviously have my preferences, and have said so in the past. As well illustrated here, the more infighting there is here (ex: Travis vs. Zipper, for example), the less that will be accomplished - except to scare any potential collector out of the hobby altogether. Jim and Richard have their opinions, but I haven't seen them pile on.

I know both Travis and Richard only through their anti-fraud efforts. They are NOT anti-authenticators - they are anti-profiteers and anti-incompetence. Have they made mistakes? Of course. Have I made mistakes? Bunches. We admit them. The TPAs don't.

Yes, PSA/DNA make mistakes. Yes, Spence makes mistakes. The differences between them and auctioneers/dealers are:

a.) They authenticate in fields in which, I believe, they are not qualified to judge;
b.) I believe there is a great deal of favoritism towards big-time customers;
c.) They authenticate via scans, and guarantee (with money), nothing;
d.) There is no record of their revoking their approvals;
e.) They make no public rebuttals or statements whatsoever - and PSA is a publicly-held company.

Yes, they do the public good. But since they charge a hefty fee and are now market-makers, they must be held accountable for their authentications. And as I said, if they say it's bad, it's ruined, even if Derek signed it and wiped hi pen on your shirt.

Comments???

[alexautographs]

PS - And any dealer, experienced collector, or auctioneer who belittles a newbie collector is:

a.) A profiteer;
b.) A know-it-all;
c.) Diminishing his stature in the hobby, or;
d.) Losing three times as many potential customers through his idiotic postings.

"An ego is a terrible thing to abuse..."

[David Atkatz]

Been saying the same things for years, Bill, re: PSA/JSA.

(And I know you--old customer of yours.)

[thenavarro]

Originally Posted by alexautographs

None of you know me, except Jim, Shelly and Travis - but my credentials outside of this forum are, IMHO, well proven.


Comments???

If you are Bill P and not someone posting under his corporate name, then there are more people that know you here than you think

I've purchased/sold many items to/from you including Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, Sam Houston, John Hancock, etc etc etc

Mike

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by alexautographs

Profane language has no place on any forum. If the members can't agree to be civil, they can PM each other, and threaten to kill each other's dogs, or whatever....

None of you know me, except Jim, Shelly and Travis - but my credentials outside of this forum are, IMHO, well proven.

You good people have a choice:

a.) Tear each other to bits over whose authenticator is best, or;
b.) Work for the common good.

I obviously have my preferences, and have said so in the past. As well illustrated here, the more infighting there is here (ex: Travis vs. Zipper, for example), the less that will be accomplished - except to scare any potential collector out of the hobby altogether. Jim and Richard have their opinions, but I haven't seen them pile on.

I know both Travis and Richard only through their anti-fraud efforts. They are NOT anti-authenticators - they are anti-profiteers and anti-incompetence. Have they made mistakes? Of course. Have I made mistakes? Bunches. We admit them. The TPAs don't.

Yes, PSA/DNA make mistakes. Yes, Spence makes mistakes. The differences between them and auctioneers/dealers are:

a.) They authenticate in fields in which, I believe, they are not qualified to judge;
b.) I believe there is a great deal of favoritism towards big-time customers;
c.) They authenticate via scans, and guarantee (with money), nothing;
d.) There is no record of their revoking their approvals;
e.) They make no public rebuttals or statements whatsoever - and PSA is a publicly-held company.

Yes, they do the public good. But since they charge a hefty fee and are now market-makers, they must be held accountable for their authentications. And as I said, if they say it's bad, it's ruined, even if Derek signed it and wiped hi pen on your shirt.

Comments???

Someone should take a screen shot of this and save it for later because NO ONE has or could make this point any better or more clear. We don't need endless analogies, one sided Willies, or dog piling on the rabbit... NOW, the next time this subject comes up, maybe we can just re-post this and be done with it.....

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by bluebirds

Don't say anything on here you WOULDN'T SAY TO A PERSON FACE TO FACE.

Martin, that would solve the problem. In a hobby like ours, if you are serious, you are likely to meet others at an event or two.