Babe Ruth Autograph Check Cut Help Please

[daves_resale_shop]

Came across this one on ebay... authenticated by ace which spooks me, but looks pretty similar to the ones that I have scene out there...

Any thoughts? Opinions?

Thanks,
David

[gnaz01]

I say no Dave.

[bender07]

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

Came across this one on ebay... authenticated by ace which spooks me, but looks pretty similar to the ones that I have scene out there...

Any thoughts? Opinions?

Thanks,
David

Isn't ACE on the banned COA list for eBay? That would be enough for me to stay far away.

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

Came across this one on ebay... authenticated by ace which spooks me, but looks pretty similar to the ones that I have scene out there...

Any thoughts? Opinions?

Thanks,
David

The forgers job is to make them look SIMILAR TO THE ONES YOU'VE SEEN OUT THERE because they are copying from the real deal. Thankfully most are bad at it but some are very very good. I have examined FULL checks (not cuts) that even have bank paid perforations (done by hand) and bank stamps front and back (usually can't read the dates) that are in my opinion not authentic. becomes obvious under magnification if you know what you are looking for. So even with full checks, tread lightly.
I've said this before but will repeat "master conterfeiters can "FREE HAND" currency and make it look real. Imagine autographs

[daves_resale_shop]

it is ace,

and i too find it hard to believe that although they are on the banned list, their items continue to get posted...

[Rob L]

Cuts that come from checks are a huge red flag. The whole check is key. Heck, cuts could have come from my checkbook

[keithsky]

I have reported this to Ebay last week and also the other day and they still have it up. Ebay doesn't care.

[alexautographs]

There were piles of checks emanating from a forger in south Jersey. He would "wash out" the payee's name and insert "Babe Ruth...Al Capone...Robert E. Lee...Nate Sanders..." and then forge the endorsement on the back. Soooo...beware of endorsements as well.

The "G. H. Ruth" was a specialty of his. I wouldn't turn one over with a stick...

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by alexautographs

There were piles of checks emanating from a forger in south Jersey. He would "wash out" the payee's name and insert "Babe Ruth...Al Capone...Robert E. Lee...Nate Sanders..." and then forge the endorsement on the back. Soooo...beware of endorsements as well.

The "G. H. Ruth" was a specialty of his. I wouldn't turn one over with a stick...

Bill - A forger in South Jersey?,, OMG "I am shocked, shocked to find gambling in this establishment."
I used to see that forger regularly at the Philly shows years ago when I used to set up there.

[HOFAUTOS]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Bill - A forger in South Jersey?,, OMG "I am shocked, shocked to find gambling in this establishment."
I used to see that forger regularly at the Philly shows years ago when I used to set up there.

How does someone get away with it if you all know what he does?

So crazy this hobby of ours

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by HOFAUTOS

How does someone get away with it if you all know what he does?

(And, I might add, who he is.) An EXCELLENT question!

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by HOFAUTOS

How does someone get away with it if you all know what he does?

So crazy this hobby of ours

Knowing what he does and proving it are two different things.
I reported a scam of his, with the necessary proof to an LE agency.
It involved a Babe Ruth Foundation Check.
One bogus check was not enough for them to act.
That was about five years ago.
Nothing has been done.

[packs]

That Piedmont guy with all his fake Mathewsons and Ruth signed dollar bills never got his bell rung either. He just stopped posting.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by packs

That Piedmont guy with all his fake Mathewsons and Ruth signed dollar bills never got his bell rung either. He just stopped posting.

Better be careful when talking about him, his lawyer will write you a letter .

[packs]

I'm not passing judgement. Only stating facts.

[alexautographs]

I'd like to disclose the name of the South Jersey forger, but I know that he's the subject of federal investigators so any further info would be counter-productive.

His MO is to buy old letterheads, baseballs, greeting cards, blank checks, etc. and adorn them with skillful forgeries of everyone from Al Capone to Babe Ruth to U. S. Grant. He has a partner in the Midwest who has consigned his material to Coach's Corner and many other auctions nationwide.

I believe that Pot of Gold Estate Auctions in Arizona may have unwittingly offered some of his material - at least it matches his style. The pieces also bear COAs by Drew Max of Pawn Star fame - an "authenticator" whose talents IMO would be put to better use as a partner of Chris Morales or ethics coach for Nate Sanders.

I'm no sports expert, but here are some exampls from POG Auctions that resemble the forger's style:

http://azfirearms.auctionflex.com/sh...enum=3&lang=En

http://azfirearms.auctionflex.com/sh...enum=3&lang=En

http://azfirearms.auctionflex.com/sh...enum=3&lang=En

http://azfirearms.auctionflex.com/sh...enum=5&lang=En

http://azfirearms.auctionflex.com/sh...enum=5&lang=En

http://azfirearms.auctionflex.com/sh...enum=3&lang=En

(My opinion - the above is a very well-executed fake)

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by alexautographs

I'd like to disclose the name of the South Jersey forger, but I know that he's the subject of federal investigators so any further info would be counter-productive.

His MO is to buy old letterheads, baseballs, greeting cards, blank checks, etc. and adorn them with skillful forgeries of everyone from Al Capone to Babe Ruth to U. S. Grant. He has a partner in the Midwest who has consigned his material to Coach's Corner and many other auctions nationwide.

I believe that Pot of Gold Estate Auctions in Arizona may have unwittingly offered some of his material - at least it matches his style. The pieces also bear COAs by Drew Max of Pawn Star fame - an "authenticator" whose talents IMO would be put to better use as a partner of Chris Morales or ethics coach for Nate Sanders.

I'm no sports expert, but here are some exampls from POG Auctions that resemble the forger's style:

http://azfirearms.auctionflex.com/sh...enum=3&lang=En

http://azfirearms.auctionflex.com/sh...enum=3&lang=En

http://azfirearms.auctionflex.com/sh...enum=3&lang=En

http://azfirearms.auctionflex.com/sh...enum=5&lang=En

http://azfirearms.auctionflex.com/sh...enum=5&lang=En

http://azfirearms.auctionflex.com/sh...enum=3&lang=En

(My opinion - the above is a very well-executed fake)

Drew Max of AAU. The guy who gave himself the title of Forensic Document Examiner (FDE). What a lousy joke!!!

http://azfirearms.auctionflex.com/sh...enum=5&lang=En

POG-1.jpg

POG-2.jpg

POG-3.jpg

POG-4.jpg

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Knowing what he does and proving it are two different things.
I reported a scam of his, with the necessary proof to an LE agency.
It involved a Babe Ruth Foundation Check.
One bogus check was not enough for them to act.
That was about five years ago.
Nothing has been done.

Ditto. It is a tough thing to watch year after year (like Coach's Corner Auctions). We do what we can to help, and after that, it is out of our hands.

[alexautographs]

And year after year these retreads get away with murder - even in my trade (historical stuff). And it's a damned shame.

Murder in the First Degree:

- Incompetent authenticators, crooks and non-crooks alike.

- Collusion between auction houses and their authenticators who both authenticate AND consign...and therefore may reject their competitors' or enemies' consignments as they choose, willy nilly (love that expression).

- Bogus auction trade practices including inflated sales results that were never realized, and the same item selling for the same amount sale after sale after sale.

- Auction results that are never published, or if they're published, show a 99% sell-through rate. Sure.

- Auction houses that brazenly advertise (for example) original Picasso oil paintings certified by so-and-so forensic examiner, sell them for $3,000 a pop, and continue to gull the public shilling the same level of bogus crap.

- Hugely profitable un-"reality" pawn shop shows legitimizing the sleaziest dealers and bums in the trade and thereby verifying their "credentials.

I once pondered a class action lawsuit against the really criminal forensic crooks out there for passing bad material that sold for pennies on the dollar. Why? It devalued MY material and that of my consignors, thereby costing me and fellow dealers and collectors a lot of money. No one stepped up to the plate, as I suspect that the grip these people now have on the industry is simply too strong and they throw lawsuits around like pennies. Witness what happened to Frank Caiazzo...

Evidence? I find it especially interesting that 24 hours after I criticized a West Coast auctioneer for reneging on $7,500 worth of eBay purchases, our email address was subjected to "mail bombs", a sophisticated internet attack that so far we have tracked to...the West Coast, home of the auctioneer, and to New Hampshire...the site of our chief competitor. Go figger.

[travrosty]

Bill,

you are right, its a big collusion and the buddy buddy stuff will continue unless it gets busted up by law enforcement at the top. too much money to be made by the same people perpetrating it for it to stop as long as they can cover it up, deny, misdirect, blame others, and play dumb and it fills their pockets because we have been taught not to study and do our own homework as collectors, just trust those who have been placed before us. Now the snowball is big and huge and out of control, and can't be stopped even though we see it wasn't what it was cracked up to be because so many still have blinders on and are partying their basses off and when the iceberg hits it will be a sobering wake up call and I hope a lot of this can get cleaned up by I don't hold my breath, I put the odds at about 1 percent.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by travrosty

Bill,

you are right, its a big collusion and the buddy buddy stuff will continue unless it gets busted up by law enforcement at the top. too much money to be made by the same people perpetrating it for it to stop as long as they can cover it up, deny, misdirect, blame others, and play dumb and it fills their pockets because we have been taught not to study and do our own homework as collectors, just trust those who have been placed before us. Now the snowball is big and huge and out of control, and can't be stopped even though we see it wasn't what it was cracked up to be because so many still have blinders on and are partying their basses off and when the iceberg hits it will be a sobering wake up call and I hope a lot of this can get cleaned up by I don't hold my breath, I put the odds at about 1 percent.

Agree with this but man below is the longest sentence I hav ever read! impressive! haha
"Now the snowball is big and huge and out of control, and can't be stopped even though we see it wasn't what it was cracked up to be because so many still have blinders on and are partying their basses off and when the iceberg hits it will be a sobering wake up call and I hope a lot of this can get cleaned up by I don't hold my breath, I put the odds at about 1 percent. "

[travrosty]

it was meant to ramble, yes. i just keep putting AND and I can make it as long as i want. ha.