paying for USPS fault

[usernamealreadytaken]

Depends. Did this happen to me as a seller or as a buyer?

[36GoudeyMan]

... this weekend because Paypal/USPS gave me a tracking number that wasn't correct or link-able, and the USPS picked up (and lost) the package.. 9 years of perfect feedback, gone in an instant....

[Leon]

Here is my take on it. IF the buyer and seller didn't talk about insurance at all then it is on the seller to get the package to the buyer, period. Just as it is on the Buyer to get the money to the seller. It doesn't matter if it's WWIII, the seller has the obligation to get the buyer his card. Now, if the buyer was offered insurance and turned it down then that is another story. I voted no on the refund but am not sure I didn't get it twisted around? So, I actually do think the seller should give a refund if the buyer never got the goods, regardless of who's fault it is, UNLESS the buyer turned down insurance. If nothing was said, each party should be obligated to the other party for their part of the deal.

[howard38]

,

[honus94566]

Don't ship expensive cards USPS, period. Send them with FedEx or UPS, insured, delivery signature required. Then nobody has any worries, and the shipper gets a full value refund in the highly unlikely event the card is lost.

[sb1]

Originally Posted by honus94566

Don't ship expensive cards USPS, period. Send them with FedEx or UPS, insured, delivery signature required. Then nobody has any worries, and the shipper gets a full value refund in the highly unlikely event the card is lost.

I believe if you tell UPS or FedEx that your paper collectible got lost in their service they will deny any claims, unless you had private insurance. I have had Fedex refuse to even ship a box once they learned it contained baseball cards, they term them as paper collectibles(even though they were slabbed) and treat them as perishable items and will not cover them.,

I have only had one or two incidents of loss with the USPS in over 30 years and each time was paid promptly and in full for the loss, once with USPS insurance and once with CIA insurance.

Edited to add, that USPS Registered mail is virtually loss free, the above post noted that they did not track the exchange's but in my experience you never see that on the USPS system until the package is delivered, the rest is internal with the USPS. A USPS employee told me that 99.99% of Registered's get delivered, you lose one and you're looking for a new job, also USPS Overnight is extremely reliable has to be signed for, sees very few different hands and is in the system so short and sweet the delivery rate is again nearly 100%, although not everywhere is guaranteed 1 day service. We use USPS for all of our auctions and use a lot of priority large and small boxes and do not charge exceedling high charges, enough to cover the USPS charge and a small amount for our private insurance.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Originally Posted by sb1

I believe if you tell UPS or FedEx that your paper collectible got lost in their service they will deny any claims, unless you had private insurance. I have had Fedex refuse to even ship a box once they learned it contained baseball cards, they term them as paper collectibles(even though they were slabbed) and treat them as perishable items and will not cover them.,

I have only had one or two incidents of loss with the USPS in over 30 years and each time was paid promptly and in full for the loss, once with USPS insurance and once with CIA insurance.

Edited to add, that USPS Registered mail is virtually loss free, the above post noted that they did not track the exchange's but in my experience you never see that on the USPS system until the package is delivered, the rest is internal with the USPS. A USPS employee told me that 99.99% of Registered's get delivered, you lose one and you're looking for a new job, also USPS Overnight is extremely reliable has to be signed for, sees very few different hands and is in the system so short and sweet the delivery rate is again nearly 100%, although not everywhere is guaranteed 1 day service. We use USPS for all of our auctions and use a lot of priority large and small boxes and do not charge exceedling high charges, enough to cover the USPS charge and a small amount for our private insurance.

Interesting. Beckett uses Fedex.

I bought a card in the past that was scanned as delivered to my house approx four hours prior to the approx time the mail carrier enters my neighborhood (routinely). A few weeks after not receiving the card, I emailed the seller, and he said tracking showed it delivered a week or so prior. He started a thread here asking if he should refund my money, to which I replied. As it turned out, an entire crate of local packages were scanned as delivered residentially when they were in fact at the post office.

Waste Management rode by while I commented here, spilling garbage out while the driver was reclined in the seat. An elderly female followed in an effort to prevent more littering. I likened USPS to Waste Management in their lack of dilligence at the time. And when I arrive home to find the green dumpsters littering the street, I'm reminded of that E90-1.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by honus94566

Don't ship expensive cards USPS, period. Send them with FedEx or UPS, insured, delivery signature required. Then nobody has any worries, and the shipper gets a full value refund in the highly unlikely event the card is lost.

FedEx will deny refunds for collectibles. USPS doesn't really ask questions when a file is claimed, other then an invoice for the item in the package showing the amount of the transaction. They don't really care what it is.

[Batter67up]

If you pay through Paypal, they require the seller to have signature confirmation not just delivery confirmation. If a dispute is opened by the purchaser, the seller must provide a signature confirmation or they will be required to refund the buyer the purchase price.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by howard38

But the seller also turned down insurance when he was at the post office mailing the package so why put it just on the buyer? Ultimately it is the seller's responsibility to get the card to the customer and therefore his responsibility to insure the package. If insurance is too much of a financial burden he can include it in his original shipping charge.

We are in agreement. That is why I said I think I voted backwards. It is the sellers responsibility, without any other agreement, to get the card to the buyer.. Again, that is what I said.

[rainier2004]

The seller has the responsibility to get the package to to the buyer. According to ebay in response to this question:

"Sellers aren't permitted to charge buyers a separate fee for insurance, either optional or required. In other words, buyer should see no separate line item for insurance fees within an item description or checkout. If a seller has chosen to purchase insurance to protect themselves, they can recover the cost of insurance within the handling fee or item price. Accordingly, sellers are permitted to state within their listings that the handling fees include insurance, or that shipping costs include insurance. However, there can be no indication of a separate insurance fee or an option to purchase insurance at checkout. By removing optional or required shipping insurance, we are adjusting tohelp meet buyer expectations for ecommerce and aligning with industry standard practices. In most circumstances, buyers do not expect to pay for the cost of shipping insurance. This change also reflects the industry - and eBay - standard practices that sellers are responsible for their items until they are safely in their customers' hands. I would suggest for you to request a cancellation of the transaction if you and the seller not agreeing the terms and condition rather than to continue with it. Thank you for being a valuable member of the eBay community. Have a wonderful time shopping and selling on eBay! Sincerely, Alice M. O. eBay Customer Support"

I offer insurance to net54 members, and feel if they turn it down the responsibility is now on them. Morally, you should do your best to communicate to the buyer the plan of safe arrival and live up to it. I have received cards from net54 members that I paid $1k and $650 for that were not insured. I wonder what those 2 members would have done if I had never got my cards? I guess I need to post my name on this one-
Steve Suckow

[smtjoy]

Its the sellers problem, the buyer purchased a card that did not arrive. Seller could have purchased insurance if they wanted to cover any possible shipping issue. Mail does get lost and will sometime show up down the road, its happened to me twice, I once had cards show up that I purchased 8 months prior that were lost, I have sold and refunded only to be contacted by the buyer 5 months later that they showed up and they sent them back to me. I think the USPS does a good job as these are the only 2 times I have had this happen to me from over 2000 transactions.

To me I see it as the risk you take as a seller and its your choice if you want to buy insurance to cover that risk or not.

[Bicem]

maybe they should share the cost of the loss and split it since neither was truly at fault?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bicem

maybe they should share the cost of the loss and split it since neither was truly at fault?

So if I send you a $5000 card and it gets lost you will eat $2500? Sweet.....

(though I am sure you and I would just meet at Starbucks or you could swing by the house, most folks aren't in close enough range for that though)

[greenmonster66]

This just happened to me last week. USPS emailed me saying item was delivered and got DC#. I then received few emails from buyer saying he never received item and was pissed at me. He later filed an EBay case against me and he even took one step further by leaving me negative feedback. First off, I do not think it is right for a buyer to leave seller negative feedback while an open case is pending. I fully explained my self to buyer and even went ahead to make a personal phone call to him. Bottom line I did my part as a seller and don't feel I am responsible any more.

[Touch'EmAll]

I have lost as both buyer and seller. It is very, very frustrating. As seller, I have learned that ALL items valued less than $100. get delivery confirmation with tracking number. And all items over get full insurance coverage. Don't even bother selling unless you are willing to eat a couple bucks on shipping and send with tracking/insurance.

With near perfect feedback, ebay security will always side with buyer unless tracking/insurance - if proper tracking/ins. then ebay security will side with seller.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Leon

So if I send you a $5000 card and it gets lost you will eat $2500? Sweet.....

(though I am sure you and I would just meet at Starbucks or you could swing by the house, most folks aren't in close enough range for that though)

maybe, IF I never asked for insurance.

[brob28]

I said, yes with a big assumption that the seller did not offer insurance. If seller offers insurance and buyer refuses, I say no. The key to me is that the item is tracked within the USPS system and then falls off.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by 36GoudeyMan

... this weekend because Paypal/USPS gave me a tracking number that wasn't correct or link-able, and the USPS picked up (and lost) the package.. 9 years of perfect feedback, gone in an instant....

You may want to try and get the buyer to revise his feedback, if it means a lot to you. You could offer to send him something to compensate him for his loss of time and show him how he can revise the feedback.

[murcerfan]

"Don't ship expensive cards USPS, period. Send them with FedEx or UPS, insured, delivery signature required. Then nobody has any worries, and the shipper gets a full value refund in the highly unlikely event the card is lost."

that is total crap.

There is no more bombproof way to ship cards than USPS registered and with the compoklicated added insurance...and if you get into 5k plus cards it is also the most cost effective.

Of course the instant gratification factor might not suite you or the speedy-internetty flashy cool as big and exclamationy!!!!!

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by usernamealreadytaken

Depends. Did this happen to me as a seller or as a buyer?

+1

[jcmtiger]

I require insurance on items over $50.00, otherwise I am responsible as a seller.

Joe

[BlueDevil89]

For any purchases of $40 or more from my website, I automatically include insurance. I've included the cost of shipping, insurance, and Delivery Confirmation into the prices shown on my website. It may make the prices on my website appear slightly higher than those of competitors who do not include such fees (or simply break those out separately), but it keeps the transactions safe and simple. On my HOW TO ORDER page I note that buyers may purchase insurance for the price of $2 for orders under $40. This way, if ever a dispute arises, it should involve a relatively small dollar amount. Closest to an incident I ever had involved a $9 card. I asked the buyer to bare with me as I worked with the USPS to resolve the matter, and informed him during the very first communication on the subject that he would be refunded his money if the card did not arrive. Two weeks later the USPS found the package and made the delivery.

I voted YES, the seller should issue a refund if the card does not arrive. Ultimately, I feel the Seller has the obligation to make delivery. I view insurance as protection for the seller, not the buyer.