Chipper jones first ballot hofer?

[Touch'EmAll]

Aw, jeez, I didn't expect to get hammered with jabs folks, lighten up. I was full well and willing to see how his stats stacked up - if he was another Ted Williams in the stat department I would have given him BIG props. But honestly, the rankings he has (mind you national league only) just doesn't scream HOF first ballot.

The whole first half of his career he missed between 2 and 10 games per season. I do call that injury free. And the second half of his career he was well within the norm for any ballplayer having mild injuries that still enabled him to play the big majority of games. Take a look at most other players through history and you will see Chipper Jones is in the norm in this department. I said "pretty much, and relatively" injury free - I never said he was bomb proof with the injuries.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

if he was another Ted Williams in the stat department I would have given him BIG props.

WoW! Talk about a tough criteria...

[Touch'EmAll]

The original question was if he is a "First Ballot" or not? Yes, he will get in, just not first ballot worthy.

And again I try to give him the benefit of doubt - I forgot to look at his defensive skills - very important overlook on my part, how incomplete I was in initial evaluation.

In reading text from Wikipedia..."on defense, however, his range factor of 2.14 placed him last among the regular major league third basemen who qualified for the fielding ranking."

[majordanby]

Baseball reference compares him to Eddie Mathews, Mike Schmidt, Mickey Mantle, and Billy Williams (other comparable players are either still playing or are his contemporaries). Mathews and Williams were not first ballot, while schmidt and mantle were.

If you look at career fWAR, Jones ranks 33rd, which is pretty darn good considering his injuries (and fWAR is a cumulative stat). Players around him include Ripken, Kaline, Boggs, Brooks Robinson, Dimaggio, Brett, Clemente, Cap anson, Gehringer, George Davis, Luke appling, and Bench. Eliminating the pre war players, Ripken, Kaline, Boggs, Robinson, Brett and Bench were first ballot guys. Griffey is also pretty close to him and my gut tells me he's a first ballot.

Include other circumstances that appear to favor him - well liked by the media, stayed with one team the entire time, many of his contemporaries, though potentially deserving, wont be inducted because of steroid implications, and he hasnt been linked to steroid usage (like griffey, whether we like it or not, many will point to his injuries as proof).

My guess is that he'll get in first ballot, not just because of his numbers, but the "other stuff" will help push him in. Just his numbers alone - no doubt HOF'er, but first ballot there is an argument against it (unlike with henderson in 09, ripken and gwynn in 07). The argument largely being the injuries over the last 8 seasons. But, an MVP and 5 other top 10 finishes is pretty darn convincing. And he did quite a bit in 07 and 08 (according to WAR, his two best seasons) despite the injuries.

[tiger8mush]

I think he's a HOFer. But if ballot # sorta ranks where you stand amongst your HOF peers, I'd put him in the 2nd tier, so 2nd ballot.

His "Wins Above Replacement" for positional players was in the top 10 only 5 times in his 18 year career (highest finish 3rd). By comparison, Pujols was #1 6 years in a row. Thats first ballot. Bonds was #1 eleven times in WAR for positional players. Schmidt and Morgan, 4 times they were #1. Those guys are first ballot HOFers. Mays, Hornsby, Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, Ted Williams, Lajoie were all #1 AT LEAST 5 times each. A dozen or so others were #1 multiple times. Chipper was never #1, nor #2 in his own league.

Not first ballot (maybe to poor defense), but easily has enough career achievement to make him a certain HOFer, probably 2nd ballot.

Just my opinion
Rob

[Jlighter]

Also he is top 50 all time in WAR, just sayin.

[Touch'EmAll]

Was he a dominant power hitter leading the league many a season?

Was he a dominant Batting Average hitter leading the league many a season?

Was he a dominant fielder leading the league in fielding stats many a season?

Was he a dominant runner leading the league in steals many a season?

Was he a perennial All-Star appearing on 15 +/- All star teams as a starter?

I always thought, in my humble opinion, that a player needs to be dominant to merit first ballot.

A very solid, good player with leadership skills - YES! Like I said before, he can play on my team anytime. But back to the question if he is a FIRST ballot HOF'er, jeesh.

[Jlighter]

The whole first half of his career he missed between 2 and 10 games per season. I do call that injury free.

So I guess that strike shortened 1994 season doesn't count? When he didn't play a game.