My Dealings with Memory Lane...GREAT read :/

[forazzurri2axz]

Justin--If you waited 2 days and the offer had not been rescinded, I guess
that would have been fine also to complain??? How do you know, as pointed out above, that the consignor didn't change his mind in the meantime??
What about 3 days?? At what point does a seller has to keep a price if someone does not commit?? 10 days???
What if 25 people had inquired as you had---that's all it was, by the way at that point; AN INQUIRY!---Does that mean that JP has to call you and 24 other inquiring minds who can't pull the trigger and tell them the price is changing??
Or are you just pissed cause you didn't have the cojones to get this card at an obviously very good price so you are taking it out on Memory Lane?

To those who imply that the card belongs to either an employee or JP himself, pretty lame on y'alls part but you probably had nothing better to say that allowed you to jump on the bandwagon.

I don't condone someones past behavior that was less than exemplary. But we live in a society in which if someone "pays his dues", they are allowed a second chance. At least that's what everyone says about Americans....that they are a forgiving people. I guess that's Americans minus the BB card hobby. And to use this situation which, in my opinion, was caused by your not acting promptly, to imply that it relates to ones past mistakes, is mistaken at best , while nasty and cowardly at worst.

Peace
Bill Latzko (don't have a middle name or I would have put that too)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yes, the OP's first communication to JP was simply an inquiry, but JP's reply -- that he would sell the card for a certain price and to let him know -- sure sounds like an offer to me. (If it wasn't an offer, what was it?) JP had the right to rescind it, but he did not, so when the OP accepted it within a reasonable time, they had a deal.

If the buyer had hit JP's BIN on ebay, and JP had then said sorry no sale I repriced it, I don't think anyone would be defending JP (perhaps I am wrong). So what's the difference in the two situations?

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes, the OP's first communication to JP was simply an inquiry, but JP's reply -- that he would sell the card for a certain price and to let him know -- sure sounds like an offer to me. (If it wasn't an offer, what was it?) JP had the right to rescind it, but he did not, so when the OP accepted it within a reasonable time, they had a deal.

If the buyer had hit JP's BIN on ebay, and JP had then said sorry no sale I repriced it, I don't think anyone would be defending JP (perhaps I am wrong). So what's the difference in the two situations?

The answer is none. IMO, there was an offer and acceptance for a specified consideration. Thats a deal.

[GasHouseGang]

Is real estate somehow different? I've seen homes on the market where the seller receives a full price offer, but the seller rejects it. I never understood how that was "legal" either. The house is for sale at a certain price, but then the price is raised after an offer is made at the full price. Why is this ok?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Putting a house on the market is not an offer. It is, in legal terms, an invitation to treat (bargain). The BUYER makes an offer, as you yourself said, and it is then up to the seller to accept or reject it.

[oldjudge]

I have traded crude oil for 28 years. If someone makes a firm offer(or bid) they indicate it as such and they indicate for how long the offer/bid is firm. An example would be that I would sell you X bbls of crude oil at $Y/bbl and that offer is firm for one half hour. Other than that, without the word "firm" in the bid or offer, the price is just considered an indication which needs to be reconfirmed if someone desires to consummate a deal. The card market is certainly less volatile than the commodity markets, but if it was me I would assume that if someone indicated a price for a card to me, and the next day I decided that I wanted to buy the card, I would have to go back and reconfirm the price.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't think the analogy to a volatile commodity holds. If someone offers me a vintage baseball card for a certain price and says "let me know," I assume if I say within a reasonable time "I'll take it" that we have a deal.

[grundle20]

Originally Posted by forazzurri2axz

What about 3 days?? At what point does a seller has to keep a price if someone does not commit?? 10 days???
What if 25 people had inquired as you had---that's all it was, by the way at that point; AN INQUIRY!---Does that mean that JP has to call you and 24 other inquiring minds who can't pull the trigger and tell them the price is changing??
Or are you just pissed cause you didn't have the cojones to get this card at an obviously very good price so you are taking it out on Memory Lane?
I guess that's Americans minus the BB card hobby. And to use this situation which, in my opinion, was caused by your not acting promptly, to imply that it relates to ones past mistakes, is mistaken at best , while nasty and cowardly at worst.

Bill,

First, I appreciate your feedback, thank you. A few points:

- I'd like to politely disagree about this entire ordeal being an inquiry. An inquiry was my first email by itself. The second email was JP offering me a price. The third email was me ACCEPTING the price.

- If we're tied up on one day being too late, or two days or ten days, then why not argue the other side if a "deal's not a deal until paid." What about ten minutes? Five minutes? Does JP reserve the right to rescind the deal (without telling me) IMMEDIATELY after saying he'll sell the card for a price?

- I don't think the size of my testicles has much to do with the buying of the card, frankly. Actually, Bill, I TRIED to get the card. One day later. By your definition, my balls should actually be HUGE. Truly, though, I can't honestly see the parallel between the level of man-hood and what price I'm willing to drop on cards.

- Lastly, I don't at all find it cowardly to point out that someone who commands tens, and at times, hundreds of thousands of dollars for cards is a fraud. I put my name on here; I own up to the story. I tell this story for disclosure, Bill. He's submitted cards back to PSA for grading to get new serial numbers to dupe bidders (see THIS STORY HERE) as well as been in FEDERAL prison for fiscal purposes. I'm going to have to stick to my guns and say there's absolutely reason to bring up his past.

[Exhibitman]

There's an old saying: "If you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas." A known crook and con man cheats on business dealings...why is this surprising?

[forazzurri2axz]

Justin, While I understand your above response, I still tend to disagree with much of your opinion on this situation. I'll leave it at that. HOWEVER, you then added a previous reference to an M116 situation some time ago.

If I remember correctly, this was one of the all-time most responses on Net 54 and shows how perception is not often reality. Shortly prior to the auction and Net 54 accusations, I had purchased PRIVATELY a large number of M116's from Buddy Mason. He is from Virginia and we met in Atlanta for the transaction. And while I don't recall all of the details of the situation, I do recall the following.........................

Some people referred to Buddy Mason as "Buddy" implying he was not real and a "JP alias" or someone representing JP/ML

Some posters got pissed at Buddy for not responding immediately after he had responded numerous times and then was not at a computer for a while...His not answering immediately at times was not good enough for the Salem Witch Hunters of Net 54..............

Some questioned whether there was really a non paying bidder or just a shill for JP when it seemed obvious that this S...K person , the non-paying bidder had screwed fellow members in previous transactions. That history of screwing fellow collectors seems enough for me to realize he wasn't a shill for JP.

And while I apologize for not recalling the specific details, accusations were made, partly because of pop report assumptions, regarding specific cards which were TOTALLY FALSE because I was the owner of the cards questioned, having bought them from Buddy before this ML situation ever occured.

Buddy was even questioned as to why he didn't consign to another company when it was obvious from the beginning that he had gotten an advance for the consignment and that consigning to another auction house would have created major problems. Also, ML did nothing wrong with the auction; SK renegged--so why should he have consigned to someone else.

The ONLY thing IMHO that ML could have done differently was state that the M116's had been given another cert # and why; but the IMPORTANT THING HERE IS THAT YOU BRING UP AN OLD SITUATION REGARDING JP AS IF TO PROVE HIS DISHONESTY BUT THE DISHONESTY WAS THAT OF S...K AND OF THE FALSE ACCUSATIONS OF SO MANY POSTERS HERE AT NET 54!!

If you and others don't like what someone did in their past, don't do business with them....But to try and find fault/dishonesty in every subsequent situation regarding the auction house BECAUSE of the past is unfair on y'alls part.

hope everyone is safe from the storm....Peace

Bill Latzko

[Leon]

For the most part I agree with Bill Latzko here. What JP did outside of the hobby didn't affect anyone in the hobby as far as I am aware. If I am not incorrect he paid for his issues (I don't know all of the details). All of my dealings with JP and his company, while in the hobby, have been fine and I have never had an issue with him. I continue to do business with his company and have never felt I was taken advantage of.
He has an issue with me because of what goes on on the board, but that is not something I can help. I don't tell people what to say or not to say, I just try to make sure everyone puts their name by their post. I am not condoning any bad behavior either. I realize some folks will never get past JPs past and that is their prerogative. But to equate a current situation, and say it is bad, because of what happened outside of the hobby several years ago, is unfair in my mind. Everyone can jump on the pile now.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by forazzurri2axz

Salem Witch Hunters of Net 54..............

Nice

[barrysloate]

It's okay to forgive JP's past, and do business with him. It's also okay to choose not to do business with somebody whose ethics you question. Either of those is fine.

What's not okay is to berate somebody for his ethical standards, but still do business with him because he has a card you need. That is being a hypocrite.

And my post is directed at nobody in particular.

[Peter_Spaeth]

As stuff trumps all for (I am guessing) most people, it's pretty easy to rehabilitate oneself in the sportscard/memorabilia industry.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

It's okay to forgive JP's past, and do business with him. It's also okay to choose not to do business with somebody whose ethics you question. Either of those is fine.

What's not okay is to berate somebody for his ethical standards, but still do business with him because he has a card you need. That is being a hypocrite.

And my post is directed at nobody in particular.

Actually, that would be blaming the victim. And here we go, around and around, with the same arguments I've heard on this board since 2006: 1) Charlie Manson never killed anyone in my family so he's okay in my book. 2) Auction houses are expected to commit fraud and if you choose to do business with a house you deem crooked then you are to blame. As Mastro's indictment does not include any bidders, just auction house executives, it would seem that the bad guys are alleged to be just the perpetrators of the fraud and not the victims.

[grundle20]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

It's okay to forgive JP's past, and do business with him. It's also okay to choose not to do business with somebody whose ethics you question. Either of those is fine.

What's not okay is to berate somebody for his ethical standards, but still do business with him because he has a card you need. That is being a hypocrite.

And my post is directed at nobody in particular.

I do value you weighing in, Barry.

However, the origin of the entire post was not even JP's past. It's JP's present. The whole point of bringing up his past was to accentuate how he runs his business today. His business ethics, while no longer illegal, haven't exactly pulled a 180 degree turn.

And I'd finally like to just point out that I'm not suggesting anyone do or not do business with Memory Lane. That's clearly your call. This isn't Romper Room. But if you guys had a bad experience with someone (see: Any hundreds of EBay users who we all talk about), honestly, I'd want you to tell me. I trust you guys way more than an ex-con salesperson. So that's why I told you.

The one point Barry made, though, I'd like to stand by loud and clear: It IS being a hypocrite to berate Memory Lane and still do business with them. That's why I'm just stating for the record that I'm not doing business with them...ever again. I don't care what card they have that I "need" (I never "need" anything in a hobby). My moral standards will always trump a PSA something-or-other (that Mastro probably photocopied...) for my collection.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

It's okay to forgive JP's past, and do business with him. It's also okay to choose not to do business with somebody whose ethics you question. Either of those is fine.

What's not okay is to berate somebody for his ethical standards, but still do business with him because he has a card you need. That is being a hypocrite.

Yes, but