Mike Gutierrez cert - render your own opinion, paige, hornung, simpson, Lemieux, Mant

drc · #1 11-02-2012, 09:54 PM

If someone had the letters t, p and a in his name, Travis would recommend against him.

toybulldog · #2 11-02-2012, 11:23 PM

No way on the Sugar Ray, not even a close miss.

D. Bergin · #3 11-02-2012, 11:23 PM

The Ray Robinson looks horrible.

D. Bergin · #4 11-02-2012, 11:24 PM

Wow, Mark and I must have seen it at the exact same time.

toybulldog · #5 11-02-2012, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Wow, Mark and I must have seen it at the exact same time.

And we didn't even have to enlarge the thumbnail.

travrosty · #6 11-02-2012, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drc

If someone had the letters t, p and a in his name, Travis would recommend against him.

not true, i have always said that a third party authentication system could work, just not the way it is being done now.

as we see with the sugar ray robinson, why reward that type of authentication. i am for competant authentication. if they quit pretending they knew all genres and categories and stuck to what they do know, maybe it would get better.

but you are correct, i haven't been too enthralled or impressed with what we have now. But that's not my fault.

they need a customer bill of rights.

1. you should be able to know just who looked at your autograph and only that person shoudl sign off on the cert.

2. they should show exemplars, especially when asked to back up their opinion.

3. when they make a mistake, own up to it, admit it, take care of it and make it right.

4. slow down and take more time to authenticate autographs, get more opinions, issue more no opinions when you dont know instead of guessing (51% percent system of authenticating sucks)

5. hire more people, get more specialized experts instead of one guy authetnicating 50 different categories with tens of thousands of different names.

6. stick to the hof'ers, major stars and other notables and quit trying to expand to authenticate every c league south american soccer team. Stick to the basics and get the basics right first.

there is a lot more i could add.

drc · #7 11-03-2012, 02:37 AM

I agree with a number of your points, Travis

Mr. Zipper · #8 11-03-2012, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drc

I agree with a number of your points, Travis

He makes a number of reasonable points. One in particular though I think is simply impossible from a practical standpoint.

2. they should show exemplars, especially when asked to back up their opinion.

If they were to do this, it's all they would do all day long. They'd have to triple the staff to accomplish this and also continue to do day-to-day operations. Then prices would rise sharply accordingly. Imagine having to explain to every irate submitter why his Burckzyk Mantle is fake? "But my grandfather got it in person!!!" Day after day after day. It would be the 7th circle of hell.

FWIW, CGC, the comic grading company, used to offer graders notes if you called and wanted to know why a book obtained a certain grade. They had to stop offering this service because the graders were on the phone all day long.

Sean1125 · #9 11-03-2012, 10:28 AM

So are some things good and some bad?

I am familiar with some of the baseball hall of famers (not Koufax), but have no idea on BKB, FB, and boxing.

As I said earlier, the price is incredibly fair at $1500 for that- if everything is authentic. He is moving and needs to get rid of them, so if I have to discount because just a few of the pieces are NG I still want to make him an offer.

otismalibu · #10 11-03-2012, 10:46 AM

How many of the pieces are signed magazine pages?

Sean1125 · #11 11-03-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by otismalibu

How many of the pieces are signed magazine pages?

Looks like the majority are 8x10's.

Deertick · #12 11-03-2012, 12:27 PM

I don't like McCovey, Paige, Jackson, Garvey, Koufax, OJ. Come on, there is even a 'Mark Spitz' that has his name mispelled. I only looked at 10 because photobucket kept locking me up, and the other 3 weren't good as much as not as sure. Bad ratio for me to believe it is worth any risk to purchase.

A wise man once said on here something about peeing in a cup.

BTW, I don't believe for a second that MG authenticated a 'collection' as a whole. And how can you appraise something without authenticating first? I'd love to see that email......

Stay away!

drc · #13 11-04-2012, 01:17 PM

I'm no expert on appraisals and this is a very broad example, but I read that an appraisal is based on 'assuming the items are authentic.' I give an example of when someone appraises the contents of your home for insurance purposes. You can't expect the appraiser to be an expert on the Superman Comic book on your shelf and the diamond ring and oil painting next to it. You'd be be goofy in the head to expert him to be able to authenticate everything in our house for that one hour hour appraisal. He may ask to see the certification that that ring is real diamond, the receipt/papers for that painting and the LOA your Domonique Wilkens game used jersey, but he's not there as an authenticator. If you read the average appraisal, you will often see that it specifically and overtly says that it is not statement about the authenticity, but only a value estimate based on 'if' the items are real.

I do realize the obvious difference is the case in this thread involves a group of autographs and an appraiser who is an expert in autographs. But keep in mind an appraisal and an authentication are often distinctly different things. For all we know, the customer sent in a list of autographs saying "I need to know the going market value to quote for my insurance" and Gutierrez may have quoted him a going 'if they are real' market price.

Duly note I've never exactly understood appraisals, especially how the heck they come up with their values for items-- so I've long been suspect of the whole scheme. But that's how they work, and how appraisers are taught in appraiser school.

And firstly and lastly and middle, you have to see the actual appraisal document to know what it says. Assuming what it says and intends doesn't feed the bull dog. As noted, it may have simply be a generic quote of market prices because someone asked.

Sean1125 · #14 11-04-2012, 05:36 PM

Ended up just passing on everything, second looks proved too much stuff to look NG. Thanks for the help as always.

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