Hall of Fame Veterans Committee List

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Don't know Marion would get in, he was only a good fielder, that's it. No clue as to how or why he won MVP with those atrocious numbers.

That is a little like saying I don't know why Dick Butkus ever made the Football Hall of Fame he was only a good defensive player

I don't know why it took the Hall of Fame so long to recognize that Bill Mazeroski was the greatest defensive 2nd baseman of all time or Wes Parker STILL is not in the Hall of Fame even though he is considered the greatest defensive first baseman of the century
_________________________
Buying and Selling Vintage Autographs for over three decades
Specializing in 19th Century and dead ball era autographs
jim@stinsonsports.com

[JimStinson]

On August 21, 2007, Wes Parker was named to the Major League Baseball All-time Gold Glove Team, and is the only eligible member of the team who is not in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

That is a little like saying I don't know why Dick Butkus ever made the Football Hall of Fame he was only a good defensive player

I don't know why it took the Hall of Fame so long to recognize that Bill Mazeroski was the greatest defensive 2nd baseman of all time or Wes Parker STILL is not in the Hall of Fame even though he is considered the greatest defensive first baseman of the century
_________________________
Buying and Selling Vintage Autographs for over three decades
Specializing in 19th Century and dead ball era autographs
jim@stinsonsports.com

Still, others put up gawdy offensive numbers while also maintaining superior defensive value in '44. Not saying that defense isn't an important factor, he just really did not help the team out offensively as much would want from a HOF'er, didn't score many runs, his OBP is horrible.

IMHO I believe that a HOF'er shouldn't get in on being the greatest in one facet of the game outside of a pitcher, like Marion for JUST his defense (potential candidate). For position players you should be able to do it all, that's what truly makes you THE best, the five tools, or close to it. You need to be able to maintain a great average, drive in runs and well as score runs, smart on the basepaths even if you don't have the steals numbers, patient at the plate and draw your walks to get on base, have great range, good reads/jumps, strong arm, and high baseball IQ. If you are an offensive monster, but have negative defensive value and actually could possibly hurt the team more than help, how should you be a HOF'er? I believe that's what makes you a HOF'er. I mean you can be unreal in one facet, but at least be average in the others.

[bender07]

But it's waaaaay more likely a guy will get in based on great offensive talent versus great defensive talent. Ted Williams wasn't a great defensive player by any means nor was he great baserunner. He simply could hit the s*** out of the ball and got in based on that.

There were very few guys that exiled on both sides of the 'ball.'

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by bender07

But it's waaaaay more likely a guy will get in based on great offensive talent versus great defensive talent. Ted Williams wasn't a great defensive player by any means nor was he great baserunner. He simply could hit the s*** out of the ball and got in based on that.

There were very few guys that exiled on both sides of the 'ball.'

Good point, Williams was an awful fielder but if he was on my team I wouldn't care WHAT he did in the outfield between innings...lol, Take a nap get a massage , eat a sandwich. Whatever he did would be fine with me. Heck I would have set up a picnic table and Bar-B-Q pit in the outfield if he wanted it. Plus he had Dom who could (and did play his and Ted's position)

On that same note I used to watch Reggie Jackson play every day when he was with the Yankees and EVERY FLY BALL WAS AN ADVENTURE ! Worst outfielder I ever saw in my life did far more harm than good with his defensive "skills" and he made it in the HOF on what ? First ballot ?

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Good point, Williams was an awful fielder but if he was on my team I wouldn't care WHAT he did in the outfield between innings...lol, Take a nap get a massage , eat a sandwich. Whatever he did would be fine with me. Heck I would have set up a picnic table and Bar-B-Q pit in the outfield if he wanted it. Plus he had Dom who could (and did play his and Ted's position)

On that same note I used to watch Reggie Jackson play every day when he was with the Yankees and EVERY FLY BALL WAS AN ADVENTURE ! Worst outfielder I ever saw in my life did far more harm than good with his defensive "skills" and he made it in the HOF on what ? First ballot ?

Reminds me of Manny Ramirez lol

[David Atkatz]

If ever there was a one-tool player in the HoF, it's Reggie.

What a joke.

[HexsHeroes]

.

It use to be the best of the all around best only got in.

Eventually, relief pitching specialists got in.

Then, defensive specialists got in.

Someday, HOF entrance by a pure designated hitter ?

Maybe there's still hope for Edgar Martinez, over time.

[MooseDog]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

If ever there was a one-tool player in the HoF, it's Reggie.

What a joke.

He became a one-tool player after leaving the A's...for whom he was a decent, perhaps not great RF with one of the best arms in the league. Maybe it was the weightlifting, maybe all the late nights but his defense did go downhill rapidly in pinstripes.

[bender07]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

That is a little like saying I don't know why Dick Butkus ever made the Football Hall of Fame he was only a good defensive player

Apples and oranges. Marion's position required him to play offense while Butkus' did not.

I think the lack of advanced, reliable defensive metrics really hurts the defense only players. It seems that it's often anecdotal on how great these guys were. I often would hear that "Maz was quickest to turn a double play!" No way to prove that and without that WS HR, I don't think Maz would have had a shot to get in.

I used to be a HOF snob and wanted tight requirements on who gets in but I've relented recently and figure the more the merrier. The current course has been set by the old Veterans Committee's of Frank Frisch and there's no way to clean up past 'wrongs' (Travis Jackson!). Let'em all in!