Marijuana laws- O/T

[vintagetoppsguy]

I never understood the point of getting high...or drunk for that matter. If people's lives are so pathetic that they have to alter their state of mind to escape reality, that really does say a lot about the decline of America.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I never understood the point of getting high...or drunk for that matter. If people's lives are so pathetic that they have to alter their state of mind to escape reality, that really does say a lot about the decline of America.

Well, I can't explain for other people, I have no desire to do either- but I do know that people legitimately use it as medicine. It does help sick people, with many different ailments.

Others use it recreationally, like they do alchohol. And, some people's lives may be that bad- I don't know.

Sincerely, Clayton

[cubsfan-budman]

There's no end to the things that people do in order to escape reality. Hobbies for instance. Reading for another.

What's actually "pathetic" is judging others for how they choose to spend their time if it doesnt affect you one way or the other.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

There's no end to the things that people do in order to escape reality. Hobbies for instance. Reading for another.

What's actually "pathetic" is judging others for how they choose to spend their time if it doesnt affect you one way or the other.

Well-said. Disagreeing is one thing - insulting people because its the only way to make your point, is another.

[glchen]

I didn't read through all of the posts and I don't want to get into a long discussion on this, but I personally believe that marijuana is worse than alcohol. The reason that people think that alcohol is worse is because it's legal. If you completely legalize pot, can you imagine what could happen if you have one of those mega corps the size of the beer companies commercializing this? If every 15 minutes on TV, you saw a commercial trying to convince you to buy this brand of pot or this other brand?

The other comparison is to cigarettes. I think it'd only be a matter of time before legalized pot goes down the road of smoking where the government puts all of these warning labels on cigarette packs. It'd be the same thing w/ pot.

Finally, I think marijuana would be the first step for many users to the road of harder drugs like cocaine. Pretty soon, you would want a bigger hit.

I'm fine w/ medical use for those who need it for pain relief. However, recreationally, I don't think so.

Edited to add: Alcohol is in another realm because there are thousands of years of Western and Asian history of drinking alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if cavemen drank regularly. However, the history of different cultures smoking pot is minuscule.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I don't think anybody is going to say anything that changes someone's opinion one way or the other. You're either for it or against it. Perhaps Leon could post a poll and the Net54 community could have our own vote

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't think anybody is going to say anything that changes someone's opinion one way or the other. You're either for it or against it. Perhaps Leon could post a poll and the Net54 community could have our own vote

Good suggestion.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't think anybody is going to say anything that changes someone's opinion one way or the other. You're either for it or against it. Perhaps Leon could post a poll and the Net54 community could have our own vote

That's not true - internet bullying, sarcasm and guilt trips are sometimes quite effective on the internet. Since joining this forum I've become a Democrat, become a huge fan of TPG's, and am even considering collecting black and white cards from the 1920's....all because of you guys.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by glchen

I didn't read through all of the posts and I don't want to get into a long discussion on this, but I personally believe that marijuana is worse than alcohol. The reason that people think that alcohol is worse is because it's legal. If you completely legalize pot, can you imagine what could happen if you have one of those mega corps the size of the beer companies commercializing this? If every 15 minutes on TV, you saw a commercial trying to convince you to buy this brand of pot or this other brand?

The other comparison is to cigarettes. I think it'd only be a matter of time before legalized pot goes down the road of smoking where the government puts all of these warning labels on cigarette packs. It'd be the same thing w/ pot.

Finally, I think marijuana would be the first step for many users to the road of harder drugs like cocaine. Pretty soon, you would want a bigger hit.

I'm fine w/ medical use for those who need it for pain relief. However, recreationally, I don't think so.

Edited to add: Alcohol is in another realm because there are thousands of years of Western and Asian history of drinking alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if cavemen drank regularly. However, the history of different cultures smoking pot is minuscule.

I don't know you or anything about your experiences, but this sounds like the words of someone who's never tried marijuana. Marijuana and cocaine are completely different. Someone who was interested in the "high" that marijuana gives them wouldn't look to cocaine for something similar. That's like saying that drinking coffee makes you want to try cocaine. They're far more alike.

From *MY* experience, the whole "gateway drug" notion is a sham...something that came with the whole "Reefer Madness" culture, which is based on misinformation about pot.

(Full disclosure, I do not smoke pot and haven't for nearly 10 years)

[glchen]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

I don't know you or anything about your experiences, but this sounds like the words of someone who's never tried marijuana. Marijuana and cocaine are completely different. Someone who was interested in the "high" that marijuana gives them wouldn't look to cocaine for something similar. That's like saying that drinking coffee makes you want to try cocaine. They're far more alike.

From *MY* experience, the whole "gateway drug" notion is a sham...something that came with the whole "Reefer Madness" culture, which is based on misinformation about pot.

(Full disclosure, I do not smoke pot and haven't for nearly 10 years)

I will admit that I have never tried marijuana and I have also never tried smoking. I do drink with friends, however. I also drink coffee every now and then.

Please educate me. Are you saying that marijuana is basically the same as caffeine? So right now, people can drink coffee and drive at the same time. So are you saying that people should be allowed to drive and smoke pot at the same time? It's not that much different? Also, I believe pregnant women are allowed to drink coffee on a limited basis. So you would say, they can also smoke pot every now and then? No problems?

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by glchen

I will admit that I have never tried marijuana and I have also never tried smoking. I do drink with friends, however. I also drink coffee every now and then.

Please educate me. Are you saying that marijuana is basically the same as caffeine? So right now, people can drink coffee and drive at the same time. So are you saying that people should be allowed to drive and smoke pot at the same time? It's not that much different? Also, I believe pregnant women are allowed to drink coffee on a limited basis. So you would say, they can also smoke pot every now and then? No problems?

I am not trying to suggest the caffeine and pot are the same thing. I am saying that pot is an unlikely gateway to something "harder" like cocaine, because they have nothing in common. Caffeine and cocaine have much more in common, based solely on the effects that they cause.

Anyhow, another thing worth dispelling is this crazy idea of a "dealer" as some Scarface kingpin. When I smoked, I bought from my buddy. He was pacifist and Pink Floyd aficionado. He bought from a grower who was an old "head"...basically a left over hippie...that was the "end of the line" so to speak.

Everyone that *I* know (I live in Central TX, not Downtown Detroit), bought weed in the same way.

So, there's that.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

From *MY* experience, the whole "gateway drug" notion is a sham...something that came with the whole "Reefer Madness" culture, which is based on misinformation about pot.

(Full disclosure, I do not smoke pot and haven't for nearly 10 years)

I haven't smoked in nearly 10 myself. I can agree with you about the origins of the "gateway" notion. However, I believe it's also a notion that has become somewhat credible nowadays. It lies simply in the potential upsale depending on the dealer.. Suck 'em in with weed, and then turn 'em on to something more profitable. I will concede that this is definitely NOT the case with all dealers though. Upon legalization, I believe that this upsale factor goes away..

[teetwoohsix]

I posted this link earlier in this thread, and I beg all of you people who are against legalizing it to go to this site and educate yourselves to the failed war on drugs: http://www.leap.cc/

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

Watch the 20 minute video of Jack Cole, giving you the STATISTICS. It's a real eye opener, and it gives you the bigger picture.

Sincerely, Clayton

[packs]

Originally Posted by glchen

I didn't read through all of the posts and I don't want to get into a long discussion on this, but I personally believe that marijuana is worse than alcohol. The reason that people think that alcohol is worse is because it's legal. If you completely legalize pot, can you imagine what could happen if you have one of those mega corps the size of the beer companies commercializing this? If every 15 minutes on TV, you saw a commercial trying to convince you to buy this brand of pot or this other brand?

Finally, I think marijuana would be the first step for many users to the road of harder drugs like cocaine. Pretty soon, you would want a bigger hit.

Edited to add: Alcohol is in another realm because there are thousands of years of Western and Asian history of drinking alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if cavemen drank regularly. However, the history of different cultures smoking pot is minuscule.

I have to disagree with all these points. Beer commercials are on TV aren't they? Last year the WHO said alcohol killed approximately 2.5 million people. How can that not be worse?

Marijuana as a gateway drug was invented in the 90s by anti-drug companies, most of which were being subsidized by alcohol and tobacco companies.

Marijuana is a naturally growing plant that has been on this continent for at least 2,000 years and has been used medicinally by native cultures for just as long, if not longer than alcohol.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by packs

I have to disagree with all these points. Beer commercials are on TV aren't they? Last year the WHO said alcohol killed approximately 2.5 million people. How can that not be worse?

Marijuana as a gateway drug was invented in the 90s by anti-drug companies, most of which were being subsidized by alcohol and tobacco companies.

Marijuana is a naturally growing plant that has been on this continent for at least 2,000 years and has been used medicinally by native cultures for just as long, if not longer than alcohol.

I'm not saying alcohol is good for you, just that there is no way you can go back to Prohibition with its history. However I will still disagree with you that pot has the same history. Why let the genie out of the bottle with legalization ?

[packs]

What genie though? How drastically do you think life will change? If you want any drug you can get it. Legalization has nothing to do with availability or use.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by glchen

I didn't read through all of the posts and I don't want to get into a long discussion on this, but I personally believe that marijuana is worse than alcohol. The reason that people think that alcohol is worse is because it's legal. If you completely legalize pot, can you imagine what could happen if you have one of those mega corps the size of the beer companies commercializing this? If every 15 minutes on TV, you saw a commercial trying to convince you to buy this brand of pot or this other brand?

The other comparison is to cigarettes. I think it'd only be a matter of time before legalized pot goes down the road of smoking where the government puts all of these warning labels on cigarette packs. It'd be the same thing w/ pot.

Finally, I think marijuana would be the first step for many users to the road of harder drugs like cocaine. Pretty soon, you would want a bigger hit.

I'm fine w/ medical use for those who need it for pain relief. However, recreationally, I don't think so.

Edited to add: Alcohol is in another realm because there are thousands of years of Western and Asian history of drinking alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if cavemen drank regularly. However, the history of different cultures smoking pot is minuscule.

The earliest known inhaled (smoked) cannabis use occured about 3000 years BCE, alcohol is roughly 4000 BCE. In terms of actual time between the two in history, we have been using marijuana for about 5000 years and alcohol for 6000 I believe the difference isn't incredible in terms of history.

[Buythatcard]

As long as the grading companies don't smoke it, I am all for legalizing it.

[jcmtiger]

lots of jobs don't test for drugs when you get hired...

none test for legal drugs, that i know of.


Cubsfan see below


Pre-Employment Drug Testing


The majority of all Fortune 500 companies do employee drug testing. It is estimated that 98 percent of Fortune 200 companies have implemented some form of employee drug testing during their recruitment process. Recruiters estimate that about 60 percent of new hires are required to take a drug test today.

Why Do Pre-Employment Drug Testing?

The US Department of Labor has estimated that drug use in the workplace costs employers up to $100 billion dollars annually in lost work time, accidents, health care costs and workers compensation costs.

Drug use affects your bottom line. Workers who do drugs are more likely to change jobs or skip work. The good news is you can put programs in place to make sure your workplace is drug free. A good drug free program includes testing applicants prior to their higher date and doing random drug testing throughout their tenure with your company.

What are Requirements for Pre-Employment Drug Testing ?

Generally these requirements for pre employment drug screening are followed by employers:
■Employers have a written drug testing policy that requires job applicants to be drug-free.
■Written notice of testing is given before the applicant may be tested. Many drug and alcohol testing laws require that job applicants be notified in advance that they may be tested and under what conditions.
■Written notice is given to the applicant that employment drug screening is required before hiring. This may be done through the employment application form or on a specific form given out at the first interview
■The written notice details the type of drug testing that will be carried out and lists the over-the-counter medications that may produce a positive result
■The same testing program should be implemented for all applicants in a particular category or there could be implications of discrimination

Pre-Employment Drug Testing & Discriminaton

A company with over 15 employees is subject to the Americans with Disabilities Act, a federal law that protects people with disabilities from discrimination. This Act prohibits pre employment medical examinations before a conditional offer of employment has been made but a test to determine if an applicant is illegally using drugs is specifically exempted from the definition of what constitutes a medical examination. However pre employment alcohol testing is considered an medical examination and can only be conducted after the candidate has been extended a conditional offer of employment.

Discrimination can be implied if an employer tests only certain applicants for a position. An employer cannot pick and choose which applicants for the same position will be tested. However within a company employment drug testing may be required for only certain positions. The company would have to be able to justify this in terms of the job requirements and a written drug policy.

[Tsaiko]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

As long as the grading companies don't smoke it, I am all for legalizing it.

Unless they start grading marijuana, which someone should surely do.

SGC = Sure Graded Cannabis
PSA = Pure Smokables Authority

Weed would be knocked down a grade or two for not being trimmed.

[tbob]

Not a pot smoker, never was but I weigh in on the legalization side. It just makes too much sense, see above.
As far as the DWI testing, a simple urine test and a drug strip has inherent problems because THC can stay in your system up to 30 days and a person could smoke a joint and 2 weeks later be caught for supposedly driving under the influence and the known drug tests won't work. There needs to be an effective test and cost effective but it can be done.
One last thought- I come from one of the reddest of the red states and yet the voters of the State narrowly voted down medical marijuana by a 51-49 vote and that was after the pharmaceutical industry spent a fortune in ads to try and defeat it. If our State could almost pass it and become the first State in the South to legalize marijuana for medical purposes, it is evident the tide is turning.

[novakjr]

I think the pharmaceutical companies have their hand in the pot(no pun intended) this time... Working in the trades, I've know plenty of people who use it as a natural painkiller to get through the day. It's gotta be better than keeping yourself hopped up on pills. I don't do either, but I'm not one to judge, I just kept my distance for potential safety reasons.. But that's a whole other discussion..

Back to the task at hand now. Full legalization could potentially lead to more people self-medicating(this can be good or bad depending on your viewpoint, I just see it as they're doing it anyway). I think that could potentially have a positive effect on the health-care system, if people aren't going to the doctors just to get prescriptions for pain-pills as often.

[steve B]

Quite a lot of ground to cover. I'd thought about individual replies, but it would just be a mess.

I find it incredibly odd that it's being pushed towards legality at a time when
Smokes can be sued for secondhand smoke by someone in the apartment next door.
Cities will ban Pate(Boston), using oil with trans fats in the deep frier(Boston), soft drinks larger than 20 oz?(NYC), donating canned food to homeless shelters(NYC), Bottled WATER(Concord Ma) Among other things.
Seriously, we're banning soda, but pot is just fine?!

The overall attitude here surprises me. Nearly everyone is very down on McGwire, Canseco, Sosa, and a bunch of others for taking stuff that was
A)probably Illegal although some of it could have been bought at GNC.
B)Not specifically against the rules - Baseball had rules about illegal substances, but NONE against performance enhancing substances at the time.
But Pot? Which is
A) Illegal
B) Banned by all sports under WADA
Should be legalized and is more than ok to smoke even if it isn't yet legal


As far as it not being any worse than alcohol or tobacco.
It's worse, if only because it has the worst features of each.
Dulls the senses AND messes with the lungs.
What do people die of most in fires? Smoke inhalation.
What's the primary form of using pot? Smoke inhalation.
Nuff ced on that.
(had to slide some bit of baseball refernce in somehow)

While I was in High school and from what I've heard the available stuff wasn't anywhere near as good as what's around now, there was a crash involving a van and kids the next town over. All high, 12 in the van something like 8 killed.
Last year a guy was rescued after he fell into the tracks on the red line. On his way home from hempfest. He was pulled out just before the train came.
Even the drunks know better than to stagger close to the edge.

I don't know of anyone jailed for some tiny amount. Maybe that's just a Mass thing, but it's usually allowed to slide with a ticket or plea bargained. The guys who go to Jail are usually the ones being d**** about getting caught. Just like everything else, if you're respectful and not lying or evasive it usually goes ok.
As of last year small ammounts aren't dealt with at all here.

To be sure, there are some advantages to making it legal. Being able to tax it is one thing, making it traceable is another. Now there's no telling who's actually making the money, the only thing likely is that whoever that is isn't all that nice.
Even the domestic growers cause problems that might not go away with legalization. I'm not sure if it's online, but the Holmes on homes episode where they rehabbed a growhouse that had been rented was astounding. Tapped off the underground main electrical feed, built tunnels to vent the house to somewhere to hide the odor plus a massive ammount of mold from the humidity. And that's in Canada.

Prohibition didn't create organized crime. It was exploited very profitably by organized crime, which was already around.
Prohibition may have sort of created NASCAR........I'm ok with that, others may not be.

And just to lighten up a bit. While I've never smoked friends did. (I was the guy who stayed straight so they wouldn't get lost in the woods or drown in the pool)
And even I think that the band that covered Peter Toshs "I smoke two joints" made the pace way too fast.

Steve B

[t210]

I think marijuana should be legalized. There are about 90 or so dispensaries within a 65 mile radius of where I live. For California it's a new faucet of income. The cities generally charge a 2-3% sub tax along with the current sales tax for the businesses that are in the marijuana dispensary industry. Marijuana will always be here. Consumed and sold. So some people figured why not tax it and generate some revenue for the states.

It's safer to buy it in a store than have to go to some street corner and possibly get robbed. Or lose your life. Get the criminals out of the picture.

Some people use it for ailments, recreational use or just simply want to relax. Like you would with a beer or a glass of wine.

Obama, Bush, Clinton and Reagan's wife have used marijuana just to name a few. So what does that mean? That Marijuana users can even become president of this great nation. Thank goodness I don't have to start naming congressman, senators or governers because I would be here all day.

Eric P.

[travrosty]

.....

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I never understood the point of getting high...or drunk for that matter. If people's lives are so pathetic that they have to alter their state of mind to escape reality, that really does say a lot about the decline of America.

james, i agree. good point, i am against legalizing pot, we don't need it. i am high on life.