Why are pencil autographs from the pre-1950s era so disrespected by collectors?

[chaddurbin]

missed out on this good thread the 1st go round. agreed would never erase any personalized inscription. i'm one of those who don't mind personal inscriptions, even if i'm the farthest-looking from an "otto".

great gehrig sig from david, but does the "nick" look out of place to anybody else? i don't know gehrig's handwriting but the nick just look odd when you compare to the "best wishes, lou gehrig" part. if you'd told me nick wrote in "nick" there himself i would believe it.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

missed out on this good thread the 1st go round. agreed would never erase any personalized inscription. i'm one of those who don't mind personal inscriptions, even if i'm the farthest-looking from an "otto".

great gehrig sig from david, but does the "nick" look out of place to anybody else? i don't know gehrig's handwriting but the nick just look odd when you compare to the "best wishes, lou gehrig" part. if you'd told me nick wrote in "nick" there himself i would believe it.

The "Nick" doesn't look odd at all, Chad--it's most definitely in Gehrig's handwriting. Here's how he addressed the other side:

[Michael B]

David,

I can see why Chad may have thought it was in a different hand. I looks like Gehrig wrote the salutation and then stopped to double check the name and when he started again he left a large space between 'wishes' and 'Nick'. It also looks like he may have turned the pencil a bit and gotten a new edge. That is why pencil signatures are so great. They can have a lot of character, much like a fountain pen. From my perspective it is easy to see that it is all in Gehrig's hand. The flair in 'Nick' fits with the rest of the writing and the 'i' is very consistent.

Cheers,

Michael

[chaddurbin]

michael--you summed up my observation perfectly and your theory makes alot of sense. that's a beautiful piece and you'd have to be crazy to erase the "nick".

[PowderedH2O]

I've got quite a few signatures in pencil in my Olympic collection. This is especially true when dealing with signatures in scrapbooks or small pieces of paper on athletes prior to 1960. I think they look just fine. What's funny is that these might be frowned upon, yet people will get baseballs and index cards signed with sharpies and have no problem with it, and in ten years those autographs will look wretched.

[Rob L]

Here's one:

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by PowderedH2O

I've got quite a few signatures in pencil in my Olympic collection. This is especially true when dealing with signatures in scrapbooks or small pieces of paper on athletes prior to 1960. I think they look just fine. What's funny is that these might be frowned upon, yet people will get baseballs and index cards signed with sharpies and have no problem with it, and in ten years those autographs will look wretched.

If you believe that, then you should always carry a pencil with you when you are paying for your favorite players' autograph.

But for really old autographs you are usually getting what you see. That pencilled Lou Gehrig looks fantastic - especially compared to some of the crappy faded pen ones we see - but if I had my choice between pencil and ink, conditions being the same, I'm taking ink (except green ink on a non-Cobb).

That's just me, but I understand how some prefer pencil.

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by Runscott

If you believe that, then you should always carry a pencil with you when you are paying for your favorite players' autograph.

But for really old autographs you are usually getting what you see. That pencilled Lou Gehrig looks fantastic - especially compared to some of the crappy faded pen ones we see - but if I had my choice between pencil and ink, conditions being the same, I'm taking ink (except green ink on a non-Cobb).

That's just me, but I understand how some prefer pencil.

I actually like both but was wondering if PSA or Spence will authenticate a pencil signature?

[PowderedH2O]

Originally Posted by Runscott

If you believe that, then you should always carry a pencil with you when you are paying for your favorite players' autograph.

But for really old autographs you are usually getting what you see. That pencilled Lou Gehrig looks fantastic - especially compared to some of the crappy faded pen ones we see - but if I had my choice between pencil and ink, conditions being the same, I'm taking ink (except green ink on a non-Cobb).

That's just me, but I understand how some prefer pencil.

I actually love ball point signatures. But, if I had a choice between a sharpie or a pencil on a paper item (not glossy, or a photo) I would prefer the pencil. And oddly enough, I usually do have a pencil handy.