Mastro pleads guilty

[williamcohon]

Interesting dilemma, isn't it, to find out that someone who made a positive contribution followed it up with something morally reprehensible? I guess there are people who credit Mastro with guidance and even inspiration. And plenty of others respected him as one of the central figures in card collecting.

Well, all right, no need to reinterpret good deeds.

And yet, the damage he inflicted on the hobby is huge. Desecrating the t206 Wagner is inexcusable. And on top of that, PSA takes serious hit. The only question is whether it is their integrity or competence which is lacking.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by williamcohon

Interesting dilemma, isn't it, to find out that someone who made a positive contribution followed it up with something morally reprehensible? I guess there are people who credit Mastro with guidance and even inspiration. And plenty of others respected him as one of the central figures in card collecting.

Well, all right, no need to reinterpret good deeds.

And yet, the damage he inflicted on the hobby is huge. Desecrating the t206 Wagner is inexcusable. And on top of that, PSA takes serious hit. The only question is whether it is their integrity or competence which is lacking.

In my opinion it's both. There was a thread started on the Collectors Universe Message Board in April 2005 where someone openly admitted that Mastro would take cards on consignment and doctor them and then have them graded. The thread was immediately deleted by CU. I saved the thread as an HTM file before it was deleted and attempted to attach it as a winzip file to this post but for some reason the winzip attachment is not working. I can forward the thread to someone who is more tech savvy about that stuff if there is any interest.

[hammer]

My father used to tell me where their is money to be made watch out.

[calvindog]

Guys, Bill Mastro's crimes in this hobby did not start and end with the trimming of the Wagner card. His fraud was ongoing, systematic and all-encompassing. The great majority of people who bid in a Mastro auction were victims of his fraud.

[Peter_Spaeth]

My guess is that there are guys out there who made a lot more money by trimming cards than Bill ever did.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My guess is that there are guys out there who made a lot more money by trimming cards than Bill ever did.

My guess is that there are guys out there who made make a lot more money by trimming cards than Bill ever did.

But that doesn't make any of this fraud right.

[calvindog]

Perhaps the only person who should be arrested for fraud in the hobby is the guy who made the most money stealing?

I think Bill and Doug in jail will provide some deterrence for other fraudsters. There are also federal criminal cases ongoing for game-used uniform fraud. You can't expect everyone bad in this hobby to get arrested because a) many more federal agents and prosecutors would need to be hired; and b) there would be like 12 people left in the hobby. This is the first time in years in which the feds have gotten involved in our hobby and it surely has helped stop some (but not all) of the fraud. And I'm sure there are other criminal investigations going on right now of other types of fraud in the hobby.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Guys, Bill Mastro's crimes in this hobby did not start and end with the trimming of the Wagner card. His fraud was ongoing, systematic and all-encompassing. The great majority of people who bid in a Mastro auction were victims of his fraud.

Given the industry that is class action lawsuits (I just received a check in the mail for $4.14 for an action I had no idea I was part of), I wonder if some enterprising attorney/ies are gearing up for such an action on behalf of auction customers who were allegedly shilled or defrauded.

I have no idea what critical mass is required to constitute a "class" in such cases.

[calvindog]

No need to worry: Bill has found religion and presumably the Ten Commandments as well. I'm certain he'll be providing full restitution to all of his victims, erm, I mean friends/character references.

[martindl]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Guys, Bill Mastro's crimes in this hobby did not start and end with the trimming of the Wagner card. His fraud was ongoing, systematic and all-encompassing. The great majority of people who bid in a Mastro auction were victims of his fraud.

I'm surprised at all the focus on the one trimmed card when ^^^^ is really the bigger issue. Allegedly, one of the hobby's biggest auction houses was for years ripping off it's customers, be it with altered cards, misrepresented items or just plain old shill bidding.

[Peter_Spaeth]

When the one trimmed card is the most famous in the hobby, has sold for upwards of 2 million, and is the card that ushered in the era of third party grading, I think the focus is understandable.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

The scandal is far bigger than one high profile card or one corrupt auction house. It became obvious to me and a lot of other collectors that there was a major widespread grading problem 7 years ago and the people responsible did nothing to correct the problem but only stay silent, silence and ban the whistleblowers and when forced to answer questions brought up by their loyal followers they would "spin" the issues by discrediting the critics.

At some point the national media has to pick up on this, especially when Mastro does plead guilty and if there is any sense of justice there needs to be some drastic changes or just shut the operation down. The biggest problem is that most collectors don't want that to happen and they become as much as the problem as the people directly responsible.

[hammer]

Third party grading is supposed to protect the collectors not sleep in bed with the dealers. Ha Ha Ha. Thanks PSA.

[botn]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

The biggest problem is that most collectors don't want that to happen and they become as much as the problem as the people directly responsible.

Dan,

You were one of those collectors during the When It Was A Game fraud. I am sure you can understand the motivation even if now you feel differently.

Greg

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Guys, Bill Mastro's crimes in this hobby did not start and end with the trimming of the Wagner card. His fraud was ongoing, systematic and all-encompassing. The great majority of people who bid in a Mastro auction were victims of his fraud.

+1 which seems to be getting lost in everything

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Guys, Bill Mastro's crimes in this hobby did not start and end with the trimming of the Wagner card. His fraud was ongoing, systematic and all-encompassing. The great majority of people who bid in a Mastro auction were victims of his fraud.

+2 I bought a lot of items, and spent a lot of money, from Mastro Auctions in good but misplaced faith. Suckers raped my wallet, allegedly or otherwise. The list of sins is long; the corruption imposed on our hobby is wide. Mr Lichtman's point is important.