Barely OT: ESPN Ranking Greatest Players

[Gecklund311]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

One thing to remember about Pedro, Maddux and Randy Johnson is that they were going up against all those juicers. The league ERA's were astronomical, and they were still putting up incredible numbers.

Agreed - that same kind of context also makes Lefty Grove and Carl Hubbell look even better than they were at first glance. Pitching in an era where a .300 batting average wasn't particularly impressive can put a big hurting on a pitcher's numbers.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Gecklund311

Agreed - that same kind of context also makes Lefty Grove and Carl Hubbell look even better than they were at first glance. Pitching in an era where a .300 batting average wasn't particularly impressive can put a big hurting on a pitcher's numbers.

soooo u dont think Johnson was on the juice??? or hgh?? come on man - piazza was too, so were most of them, its all good

[Gecklund311]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

soooo u dont think Johnson was on the juice??? or hgh?? come on man - piazza was too, so were most of them, its all good

My point was that Maddux, Pedro, and Randy Johnson look more impressive given that they pitched in an era that favored hitters, in the same way that Hubbell and Grove did. Pitching under those circumstances was harder than it was to pitch in the early 1900s or the 1960s, and should be taken into account when ranking them.

I have no idea whether Randy Johnson was on steroids/HGH or not - I did see him pitch against the Cubs when he just came up with the Expos, and he had great stuff right from the start, it was just a matter of him learning how to pitch rather than trying to overpower everyone. No doubts at all that Piazza was on it though.