PSA 8 Old Judge cards in Goodwin auction now?

z28jd · #1 01-06-2013, 08:13 AM

I'm on year 13 of collecting Old Judge cards and before that I spent a good seven years buying them here and there and learning about the set. I can say that the post by Cy sounds like he is talking about a set I've never even heard about, possibly in a different hobby altogether. I have no idea what he is talking about, Willis.

When you have a set full of commons that cost around $200 each with nice pictures and Hall of Famers and rare cards cost a lot more, it's tough to spend $5,000 on one common player, so the already small collecting pool for the set gets even smaller. If you can get a psa2/sgc30 that looks just as nice, but has back damage on a blank back, for a small fraction of the price, why would you not take it?

I'd rather have 25 commons in psa2 with nice pics, than one psa8. Some people would rather have the nicer card, to each his own, but that doesn't mean there is a small group of collectors for high grade old judge cards. That is what keeps the prices at a normal level most of the time, no competition, no people running the prices up on each other

barrysloate · #2 01-06-2013, 08:19 AM

There is a knock against Old Judges that have poor photo quality but receive a high grade because of square corners, but the really gem ones, like the horizontal Mattimore that Wonka posted, are always in demand.

Leon · #3 01-06-2013, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z28jd

I'm on year 13 of collecting Old Judge cards and before that I spent a good seven years buying them here and there and learning about the set. I can say that the post by Cy sounds like he is talking about a set I've never even heard about, possibly in a different hobby altogether. I have no idea what he is talking about, Willis.

When you have a set full of commons that cost around $200 each with nice pictures and Hall of Famers and rare cards cost a lot more, it's tough to spend $5,000 on one common player, so the already small collecting pool for the set gets even smaller. If you can get a psa2/sgc30 that looks just as nice, but has back damage on a blank back, for a small fraction of the price, why would you not take it?

I'd rather have 25 commons in psa2 with nice pics, than one psa8. Some people would rather have the nicer card, to each his own, but that doesn't mean there is a small group of collectors for high grade old judge cards. That is what keeps the prices at a normal level most of the time, no competition, no people running the prices up on each other

John, it's ok, he is on some other planet. The rub on high grade OJs has only been concerning "how" they are graded. We have all seen the image that can barely be seen in a high grade holder and a super minty image in a 1-2 holder, because of a nonsensical reason like a tiny mark on the back. That is the only issue I am aware of and it's the same as it's always been. If I collected OJs I would do as most advanced collectors do and more collect the card than the number on the slab.

cyseymour · #4 01-06-2013, 10:59 AM

I've heard a lot of people talk poorly of high grade OJ's, saying things like technical grade doesn't matter. Or that "I wouldn't trade my card for your high grade _____", etc, type of rants. It's just an anti-high grade bias that I've noticed over the years with OJ's, that's why prices are so low.

You can look at recent auction results and see that my point remains that N172 SGC 84's with outstanding images went for under $1000 last fall. That's very low considering the population rarity and quality of the cards. Just my viewpoint, coming from whatever planet you may think I'm on.

Leon · #5 01-06-2013, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyseymour

I've heard a lot of people talk poorly of high grade OJ's, saying things like technical grade doesn't matter. Or that "I wouldn't trade my card for your high grade _____", etc, type of rants. It's just an anti-high grade bias that I've noticed over the years with OJ's, that's why prices are so low.

You can look at recent auction results and see that my point remains that N172 SGC 84's with outstanding images went for under $1000 last fall. That's very low considering the population rarity and quality of the cards. Just my viewpoint, coming from whatever planet you may think I'm on.

How about listening Jamie. No one has a problem with high grade OJs that I have seen or read. They have a problem, as stated, with the way they are given their technical grades. The image is the most important thing to most collectors, whether it's in a 1 holder or a 9 holder. And those 8s in the Goodwin auction have great images. Their, and most OJ prices, will reflect their image quality not the number on the flip. Do you understand that? It's either yes or no. And I should add that, in retrospect, some of the pricing can have to do with the number on the flip as some people do buy the holder and not the card, however, in my experience that is not how most OJ collectors are.

cyseymour · #6 01-06-2013, 11:42 AM

Leon,

I am well aware of the issues with the grading companies grading some faded cards as high grade. Frankly, they have made a mess of things. That's why in my previous posts I explicitly referred to the cards as "an SGC 84 with a great image" and "N172's SGC 84's with outstanding images" as being under a thousand dollars.

To each his own, maybe some people want to collect high grade cards with faded images, not I. But I believe that the high grade cards with outstanding images have been taken down as well as a result of the grading snafu. I say this because a T206 PSA 8 "1of1" will go for over 7.5k, but an N172 PSA 8 with a strong image is still in the 2.5k range, that is only 1/3 the value.

Also, if perhaps half the high-grade OJ's are really overgraded due to a faded image, think of how special that makes the really nice ones...

Again, just my viewpoint, people may choose to collect them however they wish (I own a variety of different grade OJ's, btw).

CW · #7 01-06-2013, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyseymour

To each his own, maybe some people want to collect high grade cards with faded images, not I. But I believe that the high grade cards with outstanding images have been taken down as well as a result of the grading snafu. I say this because a T206 PSA 8 "1of1" will go for over 7.5k, but an N172 PSA 8 with a strong image is still in the 2.5k range, that is only 1/3 the value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyseymour

Also, I think that (not faded) high-grade 19th Century cards are major condition rarities, just because they are so old. A high-grade OJ is far more rare than a high-grade T206, for instance.

If you are going to compare OJs to T206s, you simply cannot expect comparable prices. Despite the fact that it makes more sense to you that high grade OJs (with good images) should cost about the same as high grade, "low pop" T206s, it just is not the case -- we're talking apples to oranges.

While both are popular sets, nothing in the prewar realm compares to the popularity of T206. Thrown in the set registry competition, as oldjudge mentioned, and the demand increases, despite the abundant supply of T206s compared to OJs. Rarity should play a role, but I think popularity and demand will often trump rarity.

Matthew H · #8 01-06-2013, 02:20 PM

I'm going to politely disagree with everything Cy has said so far. Neither of those PSA 8 OJs in Goodwin are rare, scarce, or tough. Every single serious OJ collector already has a nice Del Darling card, IMO one of the most common cards out there. If a seriously advanced collector picked this up it wouldn't be because they needed it, it would probably be because it went cheap and would be more of a novelty... I've been told that there are a few guys out there that only care about technical condition, but it's just a few.

The reason, in my opinion, the condition "rarity" phenomenon doesn't exist in the OJ market is because the set it self already rare, most of the cards are scarce. If you are going to go for PSA 8s, you will have a very small collection. It has nothing to do with "snobs snubbing". The last time I recall anything similar to what CY is suggesting, is when that "highest graded" Harry Wright came to market. It was PSA 8 with almost no photo left, and yes, some did speak against the "best in the hobby" claims made by the grade itself.

conor912 · #9 01-07-2013, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CW

Rarity should play a role, but I think popularity and demand will often trump rarity.

Nail on the head.

BCD · #10 01-06-2013, 04:17 PM

The two in the auction up in Goodwin presently show deep distinct images with no fading or corner wear akin to the killer one John owns! I did interface with Jay about the value of these a month ago or so.

sb1 · #11 01-06-2013, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCD

The two in the auction up in Goodwin presently show deep distinct images with no fading or corner wear akin to the killer one John owns! I did interface with Jay about the value of these a month ago or so.

So, we could assume they are your consignment that you are pimping?

RCMcKenzie · #12 01-06-2013, 10:10 PM

I bought the OJ book on amazon recently and after I bought the book the website went to a recommendations page that said, "people who bought this book also bought the DVDs Easy Money, Back to School, and Caddyshack."

ojkcmgr.jpg

E93 · #13 01-07-2013, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I bought the OJ book on amazon recently and after I bought the book the website went to a recommendations page that said, "people who bought this book also bought the DVDs Easy Money, Back to School, and Caddyshack."

What? No Seinfeld?

bcornell · #14 01-06-2013, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sb1

So, we could assume they are your consignment that you are pimping?

Sticking your hand in the cage... that will be regrettable.

Bicem · #15 01-06-2013, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcornell

Sticking your hand in the cage... that will be regrettable.

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