Brooklyn CDV

Saco River Auction · #1 01-08-2013, 02:08 PM

We at SRA have satisfied our obligations and have done our due diligence in assuring members of this forum and potential bidders that this is the genuine item that we all know it is. I have listened to the conspiracy theories and skeptics and have gone above and beyond to alleviate any fears. The time is at hand for individuals who are going to be players on this item, to line up and get your chance at one of the best, most historic finds to arrive on the market in years. We will not be performing any further forensic testing as we are convinced as to what this item is. Make no mistake, the evidence is clear, this is a 19th century Albumen print made in the 1860's by CH Williamson, and was not made by anyone else at any other time. I know that it is great fodder for forums like this in which rumor and innuendo sometimes supercede facts, for the sake of conversation. If this were a legal trial we would have proven our case "beyond a resonable doubt". I like that we as a forum are excited about this item, and no talk is bad talk, but let's focus on the excitement the sale of this item is going to create for my industry and your hobby.

Troy

GaryPassamonte · #2 01-08-2013, 02:24 PM

Troy,
Forgive us for being skeptical about the CdV, but that trait comes with the territory. Many of us have been stung before and we want to be positive about authenticity. The " beyond a reasonable doubt" standard is not 100%. The onus of proving absolute authenticity and instilling confidence in buyers rests with the seller and with the auction house. That said, I believe you have done everything possible to authenticate the CdV. As I've said before, we all want this to be real. I would still recommend an in person inspection of the CdV prior to bidding.

Leon · #3 01-08-2013, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

Troy,
Forgive us for being skeptical about the CdV, but that trait comes with the territory. Many of us have been stung before and we want to be positive about authenticity. The " beyond a reasonable doubt" standard is not 100%. The onus of proving absolute authenticity and instilling confidence in buyers rests with the seller and with the auction house. That said, I believe you have done everything possible to authenticate the CdV. As I've said before, we all want this to be real. I would still recommend an in person inspection of the CdV prior to bidding.

According to the report they did a lot, but certainly not everything possible.

"Additional work to confirm the process could include identification of the final image material, an assessment of paper fibers and an analysis of the binder. "

.

GaryPassamonte · #4 01-08-2013, 02:31 PM

Agreed, Leon. Everything was too strong a word.

Saco River Auction · #5 01-08-2013, 02:33 PM

I also would recommend and would invite any potential bidder to make the trip to Maine prior to the sale date to inspect the CDV themselves in order to formulate their own opinion prior to bidding. We are open by appointment Monday-Friday from 8-4 or other times by appointment. As I have stated in my prior post we will not be doing anymore testing, but I do encourage anyone to view the item in person.

Troy

Saco River Auction · #6 01-08-2013, 02:43 PM

The additional tests that Messier mentions are tests that I decided not to have completed due to two major factors. 1st each test takes a sample of the material from the image and card itself. This is a forensic test that removes a physical sample of the card and a machine determines the chemical makeup of the image and the card. I am not about to have part of the treasure snipped or extracted from the original......probably will hurt the value....don't you think. Secondly, this round of additional testing is very expensive and is not something I decided(along with the seller) made much sense.

Troy

yanks12025 · #7 01-08-2013, 03:06 PM

Did it have to get reslabbed after?

Saco River Auction · #8 01-08-2013, 03:11 PM

It has been reglued back to its original form. Scott at SGC said that anyone who buys it can have it reslabbed by him or we may send it to him prior to sale to have it done.

Old Hoss · #9 01-08-2013, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saco River Auction

The additional tests that Messier mentions are tests that I decided not to have completed due to two major factors. 1st each test takes a sample of the material from the image and card itself. This is a forensic test that removes a physical sample of the card and a machine determines the chemical makeup of the image and the card. I am not about to have part of the treasure snipped or extracted from the original......probably will hurt the value....don't you think. Secondly, this round of additional testing is very expensive and is not something I decided(along with the seller) made much sense.

Troy

In my past exposure to people working with items worth much more than this cdv (fine art prints and photographs), samples can be taken that probably do not diminish the value of the items and are probably not visible to the naked eye.

If you never asked, or were never told, how large of a sample would be taken, or where on the item it would be taken from, it is impossible to know if it would be detrimental to the item.

Just thought I'd share my thoughts. This has been really interesting to read, and I wish you good luck with your auction.

Charles

Matthew H · #10 01-08-2013, 08:26 PM

Just looking at pages 5 - 11 in Messier's report... If it's fake, that's scary.

Runscott · #11 01-08-2013, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saco River Auction

We at SRA have satisfied our obligations and have done our due diligence in assuring members of this forum and potential bidders that this is the genuine item that we all know it is. I have listened to the conspiracy theories and skeptics and have gone above and beyond to alleviate any fears. The time is at hand for individuals who are going to be players on this item, to line up and get your chance at one of the best, most historic finds to arrive on the market in years. We will not be performing any further forensic testing as we are convinced as to what this item is. Make no mistake, the evidence is clear, this is a 19th century Albumen print made in the 1860's by CH Williamson, and was not made by anyone else at any other time. I know that it is great fodder for forums like this in which rumor and innuendo sometimes supercede facts, for the sake of conversation. If this were a legal trial we would have proven our case "beyond a resonable doubt". I like that we as a forum are excited about this item, and no talk is bad talk, but let's focus on the excitement the sale of this item is going to create for my industry and your hobby.

Troy

Troy, echoing what Gary said, this is a vintage baseball forum and so we discuss vintage baseball stuff - the very expensive rare items are going to be the spotlight of our discussions.

We have shown you the utmost respect and nothing in this thread has had the slightest resemblance to a "conspiracy theory". Nor were there any "rumors", "innuendos" or anything else that "superceded facts". This was just an honest discussion based on cdv traits that were in line with problems we have seen in the past.

I do realize that auction houses would prefer that all discussions about their items be positive. There have been many high-dollar items discussed here that have received nothing but praise, with no questions regarding their authenticity. You have been very forthright in your responses and a real pleasure to talk with, so there really is no reason for anyone to question your cdv, other than that it begs questioning.

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