Who bought this??

BigJJ · #1 01-08-2013, 06:45 PM

Thank you Rhys.

The fact that the Okkonen Mathewson photo above may be a stock photo means that Mathewson wore a dark hat and dark socks some point before - either 1900 or early 1901.

Our popular uniform resources need updating to reflect pictures we have of Giants playing with dark hats and socks in 1900, 1901, and perhaps 1902 at home as an alternate home. Where is the Net 54 research intern, Leon? (We should really do this)

I have a feeling the Bucknell Polo Grounds photo is from spring 1901 or spring 1902, before the opening, northern spring training. I believe the hat Mathewson is wearing is a Giants hat. the fact that the hat is being worn in a practice, or practice game, in northern spring training may explain wearing an away cap, if it is indeed an away cap.

and the picture being from before the season in 1901 would explain the ads not matching up during the 1901 season. otherwise I am 100% certain it is 1900 or 1902. unless it is a special Bucknell visit to the Polo Grounds in 1899, I do not have the ads for 1899 either -but we have no evidence of such a 99 visit occuring.

The tunnel pictured behind Mathewson is replaced with seats, in addition to other structural changes in stadium configuration, after the 1903 season, see Graig's earlier posting. and the ads do not match up in 1903 at the beginning or end of the season, and do not match up during 1901. will continue to keep an eye out for ads from 99-02.

I received the photo today. Hard to let go. it is so clear. and I love that Im Ready signal - iconic of a quiet leader.

My family were Giants fans then, they may have been there watching, on that vast muddy grass field with the horses forming the out of play line in the outfield.

jacksons · #2 01-08-2013, 07:37 PM

According to Baseball Library:

Jun 23, 1909 - At the Polo Grounds‚ Christy Mathewson wins a doubleheader against Boston. Matty relieves Marquard in the opener with the score tied 4-4 in the 9th. After shutting down Boston‚ the Giants score a run for the 5-4 win. Matty then coasts in the nitecap to an 11-1 win. Mathewson leaves after two innings with a 4-1 lead‚ and Doc Crandall operates the rest of the way‚ The official scorer awards the game to Christy‚

Jun 22, 1909 - Christy Mathewson pitches 4 innings for the Bucknell alumni against the varsity‚ as the undergrads win‚ 13-12. Matty also plays 3B and chips in with 3 hits.

The back of the photo has a 1909 date.

My guess now is that this photo is from that alumni game June 22, which since there was a double header at the Polo Grounds June 23, had to have been played at the very same ballpark for timing purposes. How could the Giants have played a doubleheader on June 23 at the Polo Grounds, having been all the way in Lewisburg, PA (3 hours by car today) just the day before?

I know Matty looks young in that photo, but it seems to explain alot, including the older, faded B sweater...isn't it at all possible that he's just wearing a Bucknell away uniform representing the Alumni (possibly his own), and the varsity team is wearing the home unis?

May not explain why he's wearing a sweater in June though.

BigJJ · #3 01-08-2013, 07:57 PM

Gerry,
The stadium pictured is pre-1904 Polo Grounds.
Not 1909 Polo Grounds.
See the tunnel out of the field, behind Mathewson. That tunnel was filled in with seating between the 1903 and 1904 seasons. along with more seating along the field.
The Polo Grounds, as pictured behind Mathewson, did not exist after the 1903 season.

jacksons · #4 01-08-2013, 08:12 PM

Duh - good points, all. Would've helped if I'd read all the prior research from everyone.

My bad.

BigJJ · #5 01-08-2013, 08:18 PM

Heres a photo of the 1905 Polo Grounds (containing the post-1903 revamp with filled in seating, same as the 1904 Polo Grounds) and, the huge in comparison, and again reconfigured, 1909 Polo Grounds. J

prewarsports · #6 01-08-2013, 08:40 PM

I bet this is from Spring Training 1902 after thinking about it. I dont think they would have bothered to take a photo of him in Spring 1901 because he was a nobody and actually I think he was even traded to Cincinnati because the Giants did not want him and then they traded back for him for Amos Rusie. By Spring training 1902 he was quite a young phenom and would have been the subject of a photographer and since he was known as the "Collegian" maybe they told him to wear the sweater.

I also think it was probably for an "intersquad" game in which some wore the away uniform and some the home uniform, that is the ONLY explaination for the "pre 1903" stadium configuration with the 100% away uniforms he is wearing.

We will probably never know but I believe this to be the safest bet at this point. and I would feel very comfortable if it were mine (which I wish it was!) labeling it as 1902 or earlier with Spring Training 1902 as the most likely of all dates.

Rhys

Shoeless Moe · #7 01-08-2013, 08:47 PM

So if the photo is from 1902 and 1909 is written on the back does that make this a TYPE 2 photo? ; )

gnaz01 · #8 01-08-2013, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prewarsports

I would feel very comfortable if it were mine (which I wish it was!)

Rhys

Me too Rhys!

BigJJ · #9 01-08-2013, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prewarsports

I bet this is from Spring Training 1902. Rhys

I agree, I think northern spring training, inter team scrimmaging and practice, 1902 most likely, 1901 second most likely. Though I would love confirmation on home uniform hat/socks for fall 1900 and 1901 season.

Shoeless Moe · #10 01-08-2013, 08:15 PM

sold twice over the years at Legendary, but their descriptions doesn't add much more:

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...entoryid=13683

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...entoryid=21272

I have not searched REA or other auction houses. Might be worth a shot if u have the time.

gnaz01 · #11 01-08-2013, 08:16 PM

Great info, folks! I was the underbidder in that Legendary one and would have gladly paid the $2000 but I'm getting old and fell asleep

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