OT: No One Elected to the Hall?

HOF Auto Rookies · #1 01-09-2013, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robextend

How do you really know when Bonds took his first steroid? Maybe he started in the late 80's...maybe early 90's? The fact that he took at all brings his whole career into question.

You could go the other way and say how do you know if he took any. Remember people tend to forget that he never got "caught."

Robextend · #2 01-09-2013, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

You could go the other way and say how do you know if he took any. Remember people tend to forget that he never got "caught."

Without a doubt you are right...you would be in the extreme vast minority becasue of the overhwleming circumstantial evidence, but you are right.

HOF Auto Rookies · #3 01-09-2013, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robextend

Without a doubt you are right...you would be in the extreme vast minority becasue of the overhwleming circumstantial evidence, but you are right.

True lol

itjclarke · #4 01-09-2013, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robextend

Without a doubt you are right...you would be in the extreme vast minority becasue of the overhwleming circumstantial evidence, but you are right.

Where do you draw the line as it relates to circumstantial evidence? I'm sure there's a measure of circumstantial evidence against just about anyone who played in the era. Pujols at one point was linked, I believe to a Dr or trainer? (can't remember) that was a PED dealer. I think the Mitchell report only scratched the surface of the problem, so are all the guys who were implicated in that excluded from the hall, while other guys who simply got away with it allowed in?

Are all guys who tested or will test positive one time be forever excluded- A Rod? Had Ryan Braun's pee not been mishandled, would he forever be excluded? If someone rats out a player that's already been inducted, does he get thrown out? I don't know the answers, but do think this is going to damage the hall's (and its voting methods/criteria) image, because this will all be very polarizing for years to come.

Bugsy · #5 01-09-2013, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Had Ryan Braun's pee not been mishandled

Tons of current players are on synthetic testosterone now, which is out of their system within 24 hours. MLB just tested Braun at the "wrong" time. I would bet anything that a significant percentage of MLBers are regularly using. I don't know how Hall voters are going to handle this down the road.

Just read this...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...mlb/index.html

itjclarke · #6 01-09-2013, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Tons of current players are on synthetic testosterone now, which is out of their system within 24 hours. MLB just tested Braun at the "wrong" time. I would bet anything that a significant percentage of MLBers are regularly using. I don't know how Hall voters are going to handle this down the road.

I completely agree and it sucks. This issue will not stop with Bonds/Clemens. It will continue for a long time.. Manny, A-Rod.. Braun.. who knows how many more McNamees will eventually try to rat out some of the "clean" guys. Another thing that really bothers me also is that there are/were a lot of other weasels involved in a lot of dirt that don't seem to ever get criticized.. and many probably are in fact ones entrusted with the HOF vote.

5-6 years ago my wife, girlfriend at the time, was an associate at a law firm, which was hired by MLB during the Mitchell Investigation. She and her boss interviewed several people, including an MLB team owner, president, GM, and several others- Dr's/training staff/clubhouse staff, etc. A partner at their firm Christmas party told me he was taking calls daily from various media members offering him large $$$ to leak report info and names from the list. He said some were 6 figure offers, and though he didn't name a reporter or network, seemed to intimate ESPN was one. This made and still makes me sick. Eventually, as we all know confidential grand jury testimony was leaked (I think by a court clerk).. then names seemingly came out 1-2 at a time over the course of weeks/months.. maximizing media coverage.

Now I watch creepy guys like Pedro Gomez, who stalked Bonds for 2 years+ get on his high horse over why he won't vote for Bonds/Clemens/etc and keep picturing him or someone in his profession offering other people huge chunks of money for illegal information. Are these guys in the media really the best judges? (please pardon me if any of you are Pedro fans, but I got very sick of he and his camera crew sitting or standing 10 feet from my season seats every freaking night).

FrankWakefield · #7 01-09-2013, 10:03 PM

First, Mr. Biggio deserved enough votes to get in...

Next, I think that with the passage of time, the writers' bitterness toward that generation of PED users will soften a bit. Some of what was done was acceptable at the time, but is deemed wrong from today's perspective. With that waning of bitterness a few more folks will get the votes.

I think that Jake is right about Tim Wakefield, I think it's likely that he didn't use PED's.

Way back there where it was mentioned that Rose and Jackson get in... BS on that. Anyone even remotely thinking there's merit in that would benefit from reading The Fix is In, by Daniel Ginsberg, an exceptionally enlightening baseball book. If a fella's belly hurts, reckon he needs an appendectomy? Maybe an average fella shouldn't decide that, maybe he should get the enlightened, educated opinion of a doctor. And, reading The Fix is In is the way to have that similar, knowledgeable perspective. Rose should get in whenever he buys an admission ticket, and for that day only, as a patron... Joe's deceased, he doesn't get in at all.

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