assault weapon ban again

[cubsfan-budman]

The President is not abusing his power any more than Geo. H.W. Bush was when he used his executive authority to liberate Kuwait. The President has the ability to make certain decisions without Congress' permission. It makes my blood boil to hear so many conservatives scream bloody murder about these types of things. Obama is a Constitutional scholar. I have a strong feeling that he knows when he's within his rights to do something based on the Constitution.

A couple of other points I'd like to chip in:

1. An AR-15 or AK-47 or whatever type of assault rifle you might own is BY FAR the worst implement you could choose with which to defend your home in case of a home invasion/robbery. Even soft point assault rounds will go right through all the drywall in your house, posing a risk to others inside your house as well as innocent bystanders next door (or several doors down). Your are much better off defending yourself with a pistol (frankly a revolver, as they don't jam) or with a shotgun. Neither of those 2 options are going to be taken away from anyone.

So, in a defense situation, what use are assault rifles? A lot of folks have heard about store owners using assault rifles to defend their property versus looters in places like post-Katrina New Orleans or during the Rodney King riots in California. You know what's better than defending your stuff versus looters in this type of situation? GOING AWAY. Its just stuff. If you'd rather take a human life than buy insurance for your stuff, YOU might be the one with the mental health issues.

If a person breaks into your home or place of business with intent to harm you, then by all means defend yourself with deadly force. My suggestion is to use a shotgun or pistol to do so, but currently that's up to you.

Finally, "assault weapon" is not nearly as nebulous of a term as many might imagine. It has very little to do with "selective fire" as was stated above. In my experience there are 3 types of military-style rifles that are available to the general public.

1. Sniper-type rifles (many calibers up to and including .50 cal rifles)
2. Battle-type rifles (typically .308 and 30.06, examples include HK G3, FN FAL and FN SCAR heavy)
3. Assault-type rifles (typically .223 or 5.56mm (AR-15) or 7.62x39 (AK-47))

Interesting trivia: 7.62 is the "common denominator" when judging the type of rifle that you're looking at...a "battle rifle" will shoot 7.62x51 (which is the military designation of .308 Winchester) or 7.62x54(r) which is reasonably common because its the round that goes with the Russian Mosin-Nagant rifle, which is so numerous because of their use in WW2.

The original assault round was for the German "Sturmgewehr" when they noticed that most of their engagements were occurring at relatively close quarters, so the extra powder in their 7.62x51 rounds was unnecessary. If the chopped the round down to 7.62x39 their soldiers could retain their effectiveness AND carry more ammo (or be less encumbered by the same number of rounds).

So assault weapons are literally the type of weapons built around these type of rounds. That is: a "battle rifle" caliber chopped down in length for easy carry.

The .223/5.56 nato is a modern take on the WW2-era 7.62x39 concept.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

You know what's better than defending your stuff versus looters in this type of situation? GOING AWAY. Its just stuff.

Funny, funny stuff. Tell you what, I'm coming by your house at 10:00 tonight to rob you. Since you know I'm coming, just GO AWAY! Leave! It's just stuff, right?

You know I am not serious but, if I was, something tells me you wouldn't heed your own advice and just "go away". You would be there to defend your property.

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

If you'd rather take a human life than buy insurance for your stuff, YOU might be the one with the mental health issues.

Why does it have to be a choice? Personally, I choose both, I HAVE insurance, but if somebody breaks into my house, I will certainly take their life.

[teetwoohsix]

NM

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Funny, funny stuff. Tell you what, I'm coming by your house at 10:00 tonight to rob you. Since you know I'm coming, just GO AWAY! Leave! It's just stuff, right?

You know I am not serious but, if I was, something tells me you wouldn't heed your own advice and just "go away". You would be there to defend your property.



Why does it have to be a choice? Personally, I choose both, I HAVE insurance, but if somebody breaks into my house, I will certainly take their life.

I agree with partially with the latter point... It is not socially accepted to break into someones house, you don't know why they are there or what they can or will do, you don't know if they are going to harm you your family or your child(ren)... If you see they are armed you cannot take chances - them or you - I don't think I would shoot to kill though who knows as I hope I am never in that situation.

[esd10]

a person coming into your home while knowing you are home they have the intent of harming you and your family and to take what is yours so i will defend my family with my so called assault weapon. a 9mm round will go through a wall just as easy as a 223 round so thats garbage and has no argument.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by esd10

a person coming into your home while knowing you are home they have the intent of harming you and your family and to take what is yours so i will defend my family with my so called assault weapon. a 9mm round will go through a wall just as easy as a 223 round so thats garbage and has no argument.

This is patently false. There is TONS of "frangible" 9mm ammo on the market this purpose-made to break up once it hits drywall/brick/other building material. If you go to WalMart, you'll find more types of "home defense" ammo than normal "hardball" ammo.

.223 does come in soft-point varieties, but unless you load the rounds yourself, there is too much powder behind the bullet to stop it from going through drywall/hardy plank/whatever.

In fairness, I'm sure you could find some specialty ammo for your AR-15 on the web somewhere that would be appropriate for defense inside your home, but the stuff you get at WalMart/Cabela's/Academy isn't going to do the job.

Also, even in a "carbine" configuration, the fact that you need to raise the weapon to your shoulder to be effective and the barrel length being what it is (18in) your ability to acquire your target effectively in the dark is really diminished...even with the best ammo.

Anyhow, if you have the sincere desire to protect your house from intruders, short-barrelled shotguns with 00 buckshot are absolutely your best, most effective solution, followed by revolvers with frangible ammo.

In my previous post, I wasnt speaking against killing someone who threatens your life or the life of your family. And I definitely feel that someone who knowingly enters your home while you're in it has the intention of harming you. I was merely speaking against those people who use their guns only to protect their property. IN MY OPINION, no stuff is worth taking someones life for. If you find yourself in a Katrina-type situation, the most ethical and frankly safest thing to do is LEAVE THE AREA.

[vintagetoppsguy]

http://230grain.com/showthread.php?6...is-Test-(Adpat)

[cubsfan-budman]

Interesting info David, and certainly not what I expected.

I wonder though why they used frangible ammo in the .223, but not in the pistol, if they wanted to compare apples to apples.

Anyhow, I've personally punched holes in a cast iron bathtub with 5.56 FMJ, so my assumption was that it would punch through drywall like it was paper. Maybe not.