FAKE packs and an FBI Fraud Investigation: What would YOU do?

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by pepis

The packs that i was involved directly in altering that graded
are still in my posetion,, i call them proof and think only 12 people will see'm

Why is he still on this forum?

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Why is he still on this forum?

Why do you ask? You may be right, but it's not clear to me so far. Please explain.

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Why do you ask? You may be right, but it's not clear to me so far. Please explain.

Dan I was asking because he has admitted to faking packs. I really do not buy the Robin Hood story of trying to uncover the crooked PSA authenticator. I think he wanted to know if his packs could get past PSA and they did. I believe he sent them not to help the hobby, but to make more money in a crooked business. How would I know how to fake packs and get them past PSA if I were not in a crooked business. I do not think faking packs is a normal hobby for an honest hobbyist.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Dan I was asking because he has admitted to faking packs. I really do not buy the Robin Hood story of trying to uncover the crooked PSA authenticator. I think he wanted to know if his packs could get past PSA and they did. I believe he sent them not to help the hobby, but to make more money in a crooked business. How would I know how to fake packs and get them past PSA if I were not in a crooked business. I do not think faking packs is a normal hobby for an honest hobbyist.

Well besides admitting faking packs if you read post #57, Jose wrote:

The packs that i was involved directly in altering that graded
are still in my posetion,, i call them proof and think only 12 people will see'm

So far there's no clear proof he sold fake packs.

[Rich Klein]

All were publicized at the time.

And this is from a recent article I wrote for Sports Collectors Daily

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...ck-a-long-way/

Rich

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Well besides admitting faking packs if you read post #57, Jose wrote:

The packs that i was involved directly in altering that graded
are still in my posetion,, i call them proof and think only 12 people will see'm

So far there's no clear proof he sold fake packs.

No problem Dan I would just agree to disagree.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

No problem Dan I would just agree to disagree.

I honestly don't know Jose from Shinola, but there was a former poster on this board who successfully altered cards and got them graded by PSA as an experiment. I won't pass any judgement here until we see all the facts laid out.

[1980scollector]

I bought four or five PSA graded packs from Jose when I was in my pack collecting phase.


He would be the only one that could tell you whether they were "josemade" packs or authentic.

Never doubted their authenticity because they were in PSA holders.


My packs are long gone because I jump around on my collecting and sold my entire pack collection around a year ago.

However, here is two links that might be worth a look.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-TOPPS-C...p2047675.l2557


http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedi...pack-309001126

[pepis]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Well besides admitting faking packs if you read post #57, Jose wrote:

The packs that i was involved directly in altering that graded
are still in my posetion,, i call them proof and think only 12 people will see'm

So far there's no clear proof he sold fake packs.

Dan, here is one of the samples, this packs top (Willie) card has a nasty
gum stain on back, and a tear that only okurs when the pack is opened,
Matt Miller and others at the CU were persistant with their offers traying
to buy it, but i couldn't sell it is an important part of my venture.
Jose

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by pepis

Dan, here is one of the samples, this packs top (Willie) card has a nasty
gum stain and a tear that only okurs when the pack is opened,
Matt Miller and others at the CU were persistant with their offers traying
to buy it, but i couldn't sell it is an important part of my venture.
Jose

So is that just a bad/resealed pack that got graded, or is the pack altered?

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

So is that just a bad/resealed pack that got graded, or is the pack altered?

Sample of what? A pack you bought, or a pack you created and had graded? A pack you 'got' from someone? If so, who?

Jose, your dancing around questions is evasive. Your wording of your answers, and I am ASSuming, appears intentionally spun to tell your story the way you want to tell it. Or is it because you are not quite sure how to say it, I don't know. This whole thing is just wrong.

I asked several pages back about your statement of sharing info with 12 people. If this is a thinly veiled reference to a jury, good luck. If this is a reference to a Grand Jury, what are you doing here? Either way, tell it straight or do us all a favor and take a week or so off...

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Why is he still on this forum?

Because he puts his name on his posts, and we are not judge and jury. Do you have information that we should have?

[Goodsport40]

So has Jose ever explained this whole thing as requested?

If so I missed the explanation.

[MBMiller25]

f you want to see the next generation of card buyers in action, go to blowoutcards.com and spend a week or two there. There are tons of kids, and I do mean kids, doing B/S/T on modern. None of those kids post here because they don't have interests in Tobacco-era now, but as those mostly teenage and 20-something collectors advance, some will develop interests in vintage as well. The avenues of trade have changed for sure, but collecting is not dying.

Maybe it isn't, but I can only speak for myself when I say, I have sold almost $100,000 in collectibles since October of last year, due the fraud and corruptness in this hobby and outside of ripping my own wax packs and maybe buying Mint 80's rookies that brought me joy as a kid (who would Dr. $10 cards?) I am done with this hobby. No more week long National trips, no more going to card shows, no more of my money being circulated within the industry. I was never a heavy weight, and don't want to come off as being some high roller, but I did contribute a lot of money annually into this hobby. I used to own some difficult high graded post war cards, and that's all over. So say what you want about collecting not dying, but the hobby is nowhere near healthy enough to absorb collectors leaving the hobby, due to the corruptness that exists everywhere. There are some great people in this hobby, but there is also a bunch of scum (my word), that operate as Promotors, 3rd party graders, Auction Houses, Dealers, EBAY Consignors, etc, that allow their greed to potentially jeopardize a long standing hobby, and great memories for many of us. For that I say KARMA is a Bitch!

Jose, As someone that purchased 5 or so graded packs from you, I find no humor in what you did, nor do I view you a hero, irregardless whether I bought fake packs or not.

Originally Posted by MBMiller25

Maybe it isn't, but I can only speak for myself when I say, I have sold almost $100,000 in collectibles since October of last year, due the fraud and corruptness in this hobby and outside of ripping my own wax packs and maybe buying PSA 9 80's rookies that brought me joy as a kid (who would Dr. $10 cards?) I am done with this hobby. No more week long National trips, no more going to card shows, no more of my money being circulated within the industry. I was never a heavy weight, and don't want to come off as being some high roller, but I did contribute a lot of money annually into this hobby. I used to own some difficult high graded post war cards, and that's all over. So say what you want about collecting not dying, but the hobby is nowhere near healthy enough to absorb collectors leaving the hobby, due to the corruptness that exists everywhere. There are some great people in this hobby, but there is also a bunch of scum (my word), that operate as Promotors, 3rd party graders, Auction Houses, Dealers, EBAY Consignors, etc, that allow their greed to potentially jeopardize a long standing hobby, and great memories for many of us. For that I say KARMA is a Bitch!

Jose, As someone that purchased 5 or so graded packs from you, I find no humor in what you did, nor do I view you a hero, irregardless whether I bought fake packs or not.

Corruption is just a fact of life, as is greed and fraud. That's why it's important for the people who are a credit to the hobby to stand their ground and fight back.

People will fall on both sides of the conflict, and it's sad to see Matt go.

Maybe Matt, and others, will find inspiration to come back when they see those who do bad be held accountable for their actions.

[HRBAKER]

Corruption is a fact of life, but IMO this hobby seems to attract a disproportionate amount of people who are allergic to an honest day's work.

[CharleyBrown]

Corruption has been a part of this hobby for a very long time... in different forms, no doubt, but it has always been here - just as it’s been a part of sports.

It seems as if its a disproportionate because the hobby is a strong focus of our lives. Many of has have a lot vested in it in terms of $, time, and passion, so naturally everything seems greater than it is.

As a teacher, I can tell you that the education system is equally corrupt..

I’m sure other hobbies deal with the same.

If corruption is driving u out, maybe u were in too deep with the hobby to begin with...

Spend time with family, and do other things that don’t involve the hobby.

Matt, to be honest - I think this hobby still means something to you, as you’re still here posting after having sold off much of your collection.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Corruption is a fact of life, but IMO this hobby seems to attract a disproportionate amount of people who are allergic to an honest day's work.

+1...well met, Jeff.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by MBMiller25

Maybe it isn't, but I can only speak for myself when I say, I have sold almost $100,000 in collectibles since October of last year, due the fraud and corruptness in this hobby and outside of ripping my own wax packs and maybe buying Mint 80's rookies that brought me joy as a kid (who would Dr. $10 cards?) I am done with this hobby. No more week long National trips, no more going to card shows, no more of my money being circulated within the industry. I was never a heavy weight, and don't want to come off as being some high roller, but I did contribute a lot of money annually into this hobby. I used to own some difficult high graded post war cards, and that's all over. So say what you want about collecting not dying, but the hobby is nowhere near healthy enough to absorb collectors leaving the hobby, due to the corruptness that exists everywhere. There are some great people in this hobby, but there is also a bunch of scum (my word), that operate as Promotors, 3rd party graders, Auction Houses, Dealers, EBAY Consignors, etc, that allow their greed to potentially jeopardize a long standing hobby, and great memories for many of us. For that I say KARMA is a Bitch!

Jose, As someone that purchased 5 or so graded packs from you, I find no humor in what you did, nor do I view you a hero, irregardless whether I bought fake packs or not.

Ditto for me. I'm not completely out of the hobby, but I'm spending about 3% of what I did when I was extremely active in the PSA registry. The pervasive corruption in this hobby is staggering.

I have nothing good or bad to say about Jose since there isn't clear, concise understanding about what has happened.

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Because he puts his name on his posts, and we are not judge and jury. Do you have information that we should have?

No Dan just asking a question and you answered it to my satisfaction thanks.