SGC is now authenticating autographs

[markf31]

Originally Posted by travrosty

the customer doesnt really know if that autograph is good or bad if it has a psa or jsa cert. they are just going along with what psa or jsa says.

But that's the case when most and certainly the large majority of customers buy autographs from anyone. Most buyers don't know how to tell a good autograph from a bad one, thats why they rely on the opinions of others. I trust Jim, Richard, Kevin, etc... but at the end of the day, when I purchase an auotgraph from them I'm simply "going along with what they say"...because I trust them completely.

[shelly]

The bottom line is that if you do not have a cert by the top tpa's you will not sell at the same price from all of our beloved experts on this site. If anyone of you can show me where I a wrong I will donate 20 dollars to what ever fund Leon has.
I am not talking about keeping an item I am only talking about selling to any of the top auction houses. The only[person that might not care is Josh Evans because he will replace it with his own. The rest of them will not accept a cert from our guys. RandR , Robert Edwards. Memory Lane. Hunt, you name them and show me on cert from anyone but they should not be named
It cant be on piece. It must be understood that I trust these guys more than the others but when it comes down to the money it does not count. You can trust to get their opinion but you can not sell and opinion from them.

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by shelly

The bottom line is that if you do not have a cert by the top tpa's you will not sell at the same price from all of our beloved experts on this site. If anyone of you can show me where I a wrong I will donate 20 dollars to what ever fund Leon has.
I am not talking about keeping an item I am only talking about selling to any of the top auction houses. The only[person that might not care is Josh Evans because he will replace it with his own. The rest of them will not accept a cert from our guys. RandR , Robert Edwards. Memory Lane. Hunt, you name them and show me on cert from anyone but they should not be named
It cant be on piece. It must be understood that I trust these guys more than the others but when it comes down to the money it does not count. You can trust to get their opinion but you can not sell and opinion from them.

I really am not being sarcastic or trying to be funny but are you saying that if someone whos estate or collection with a value of oh lets say $100,000 and consists of ...oh lets say 19th century autograph rarities and they send them to a reputable and reasonably intelligent auction house or dealer that they will refuse to buy or sell them based on the fact they do not have a COA ????
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

I really am not being sarcastic or trying to be funny but are you saying that if someone whos estate or collection with a value of oh lets say $100,000 and consists of ...oh lets say 19th century autograph rarities and they send them to a reputable and reasonably intelligent auction house or dealer that they will refuse to buy or sell them based on the fact they do not have a COA ????
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

+1

the good stuff doesnt need the certs, people can think for themselves. how DOES leland's stay in business?

[HRBAKER]

The Third Party certs make it easy for the AHs to wash their
hands of any potential issues. Make it easy for them to pose
as nothing but a conduit. Hence they love them, that and plus
it makes the items more liquid.

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

The Third Party certs make it easy for the AHs to wash their
hands of any potential issues. Make it easy for them to pose
as nothing but a conduit. Hence they love them, that and plus
it makes the items more liquid.

This man just condensed 10 hours of truth into a couple sentences ....Its inarguable.
Now let me say something that pales in comparision BUT should be said only because of the inevitable rebutals and that is THIS...

I like to play cards ....according to the "Book of Hoyle" which is the card players bible so to speak the rule is "THE CARDS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES" which means when I lay down my cards and say I have a straight but in reality I have a STRAIGHT FLUSH , Then if I call it an elephant or giraffe or whatever I call it ....the cards still speak for themselves , it is what it is regardless of what I or anyone else calls it ...it is what it is , The CARDS speak for themselves
_____________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[shelly]

Originally Posted by travrosty

+1

the good stuff doesnt need the certs, people can think for themselves. how DOES leland's stay in business?

Travis you hate them so what ever you say is biased. I am trying to say that your coa compared to the jsa's will not get the same money or they will have yours cert changed to theirs if it is an auction house. Six out of the top Seven houses use those guys. There must be a reason

[shelly]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

I really am not being sarcastic or trying to be funny but are you saying that if someone whos estate or collection with a value of oh lets say $100,000 and consists of ...oh lets say 19th century autograph rarities and they send them to a reputable and reasonably intelligent auction house or dealer that they will refuse to buy or sell them based on the fact they do not have a COA ????
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

I am saying that the auction house will not use your coa but that of Jsa and Psa to make more money. Is this not ture?

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by shelly

I am saying that the auction house will not use your coa but that of Jsa and Psa to make more money. Is this not ture?

Shelly are you posting from Jamaica ? tell the truth
What I am saying is that a reputable dealer with an untarnished reputation will sell autographs for MORE money based on their consistant performance of excellence and customer service for MORE than a seller that is flailing around blindly in the dark and needs to rely or worse throw off responsibility to another party , whatever they call themselves. To quote one of my previous posts THE CARDS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES no one is going to turn away a substantial collection based on COA's or TPA's or whatever you want to call them. And I SINCERELY hope you are correct because if thats the case I have just recieved a MASSIVE pay increase
Friend JIM
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[shelly]

Jim, I only wished I was in Jamaica , but I am talking reality.I will say this one more time a Psa Mantle, vs. your cert or Richards who is going to get more money. You must be smoking bad Jamaican weed.
Tell me any auction house that will use your cert vs. Psa.
You know I am telling the truth. Why am I the bad guy?

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by shelly

Jim, I only wished I was in Jamaica , but I am talking reality.I will say this one more time a Psa Mantle, vs. your cert or Richards who is going to get more money. You must be smoking bad Jamaican weed.
Tell me any auction house that will use your cert vs. Psa.
You know I am telling the truth. Why am I the bad guy?

Well ...I don;t know how to answer that question because almost 100% of the autographs I offer on my e-mail updates sell within 48 hours , so I don;t really need to use an auction house , what would I send them? AIR ? I monitor auction results all of the time , I work 15 hours a day 7 days a week.
So while I don;t "Mill around smartly" at card shows I have a pretty good handle on what things should and shouldn't sell for and I don;t smoke weed , jamaician or otherwise but I do love a cold beer from time to time , Now what were you saying ?
__________________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by markf31

Most buyers don't know how to tell a good autograph from a bad one, thats why they rely on the opinions of others.

Mark, you make a very good point. This is exactly why the hobby NEEDS authenticators. But you STILL have to do your research, either yourself on the signature, or on the authenticators.

Edited - removed the argumentative part

[drc]

In any area of collecting, asking for the opinions and input from others is important-- whether the other is a museum curator or just a fellow collecting friend nextdoor who has some experience in the area. There's nothing wrong per se with a PSA or JSA LOA-- as long as you treat it as an opinion and not as gospel.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by drc

In any area of collecting, asking for the opinions and input from others is important-- whether the other is a museum curator or just a fellow collecting friend nextdoor who has some experience in the area. There's nothing wrong per se with a PSA or JSA LOA-- as long as you treat it as an opinion and not as gospel.

Except that it is treated as gospel. The majority of "collectors" won't buy anything that doesn't have a PSA or JSA CoA, and will buy anything that does.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Except that it is treated as gospel. The majority of "collectors" won't buy anything that doesn't have a PSA or JSA CoA, and will buy anything that does.

Isn't that mainly just true of flippers or re-sellers? When I buy a 'permanent' piece for my collection, I don't care whether or not it has a COA. It's nice if it does, but that won't affect what I'm willing to pay.

And that's true of at least one other collector on this board. I recently sold a handwritten Walter Johnson letter to him and forgot to even mention the PSA/DNA COA. I found it yesterday while cleaning out a drawer - had forgotten it had come with one.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Isn't that mainly just true of flippers or re-sellers? When I buy a 'permanent' piece for my collection, I don't care whether or not it has a COA. It's nice if it does, but that won't affect what I'm willing to pay.

And that's true of at least one other collector on this board. I recently sold a handwritten Walter Johnson letter to him and forgot to even mention the PSA/DNA COA. I found it yesterday while cleaning out a drawer - had forgotten it had come with one.

Scott, that's why "collectors" was in quotes. the majority of them are not on this board. Howe many autograph collectors are here? One hundred or so?
Hardly enough to keep JSA and PSA in business.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Scott, that's why "collectors" was in quotes. the majority of them are not on this board. Howe many autograph collectors are here? One hundred or so?
Hardly enough to keep JSA and PSA in business.

There might be 100 active participants but there are a lot of folks watching...This is a 30 day running total......still not enough to keep the TPG's in business but a few more than a hundred....

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