Another shill? You tell me.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

I have never heard of any collector buying exclusively from one seller. I think it takes much less of a stretch in imagination to think a consignor is shilling his lots.

If people are this concerned maybe they should contact the seller and see if he can match up the bids with a consignor.

Bid history only goes back 30 days. I still don't understand this shilling theory that says a buyer must spread his money throughout the entire ebay system evenly.

I don't know if this guy is a shiller or not, but you've never had a 30 day span you've only bought from one seller?

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

If people are this concerned maybe they should contact the seller and see if he can match up the bids with a consignor.

Bid history only goes back 30 days. I still don't understand this shilling theory that says a buyer must spread his money throughout the entire ebay system evenly.

I don't know if this guy is a shiller or not, but you've never had a 30 day span you've only bought from one seller?

Have I ever placed 42 bids on 23 lots exclusively with a single seller? No, I have not. I have never bid that way nor heard of anyone else following that pattern. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Have I ever placed 42 bids on 23 lots exclusively with a single seller? No, I have not. I have never bid that way nor heard of anyone else following that pattern. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Well, you titled the thread with a "?" mark. I gave my opinion. You should contact the seller if you are concerned.

What about an auction house? You've never placed 42 bids on 23 lots?

I don't know. It really doesn't seem too excessive to me. Especially with a seller with this many lots up.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Well, you titled the thread with a "?" mark. I gave my opinion. You should contact the seller if you are concerned.

What about an auction house? You've never placed 42 bids on 23 lots?

I don't know. It really doesn't seem too excessive to me. Especially with a seller with this many lots up.

I guess the question was rhetorical. I meant this as a public service annoucement for potential bidders to be aware of several red flags. I actually chose not to bid on a few lots after I saw this pattern.

And no, I have NEVER bid exclusively with anyone.

[Runscott]

Chris, I think most everyone got it.

I'm not taking anything away from Dave - I believe that generally the people who will defend questionable things like this are just very honest people who are also very trusting. Nothing wrong with being a 'cup half filled' person.

Personally, I think this example looks so much like blatant shilling that if PWCC doesn't retract the bids, or at least explain them, it might as well be shilling. And being 'busy' with thousands of auctions isn't really an excuse. Big sellers of vintage cards need to be watching the only vintage board that is worth watching - we are the pulse of the hobby and I'm sure he's aware of that.

I once complained about ridiculous shipping charges, but left out the auction house name. Within an hour I had an email from the head of the company, apologizing for the mistake and sending a revised invoice. This was someone who doesn't EVER comment here. Yes, they are reading our posts.

But let's see if the +1 guy actually wins anything, and if so, where that stuff ends up. I'm sure there are a few crime dogs aground who will take up the chase.

[wolf441]

I wasn't aware of the seller until the last post because I can't log onto ebay from work, but having watched quite a few of the PWCC T206 auctions over the past week, the ending prices don't seem to be out of line with what I'd expect for cards with the grades presented. A few of them seemed high, but there were some that finished lower than I thought they would. I didn't see any evidence of the type of obvious shilling that has been evident on some other large ebay sellers' auctions...

[smtjoy]

42 bids on 23 items. 100% of the activity, pretty much says it all.

I find it funny that some just gloss over stats like that or just dont care. I am guessing those are the collectors who only plan to part with their collection when they die so the price they pay makes no difference to them.

It does matter to me as someone who buys and sells various parts of my collection. I didnt really understand how much the whole shilling thing is a factor till I tried to sell some of my cards and well I got crushed. Then looking over my purchase log of who and when I purchased the cards and the ones I was losing the most money on all seemed to come from a couple of the big sellers. If it had happened on a few cards then fine its just a bad day selling but after selling over 500 cards and these trends were still going strong you realize just how much shilling is affecting prices. Also I really think shilling is used more to prop up the value of cards vs to increase value, so a comment like I though prices were normal or near VCP can also be very misleading. Like I said sell a couple cards and see how you do, it was an eye opening experience. Also when I sell cards I can hardly get any early bidding at all but somehow certain consignment houses initial bidding always seem to be run up to near 80% of VCP on every card. Again if it happened here and there fine but not nearly everything they sell.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I wasn't aware of the seller until the last post because I can't log onto ebay from work, but having watched quite a few of the PWCC T206 auctions over the past week, the ending prices don't seem to be out of line with what I'd expect for cards with the grades presented. A few of them seemed high, but there were some that finished lower than I thought they would. I didn't see any evidence of the type of obvious shilling that has been evident on some other large ebay sellers' auctions...

Shilling involves the artificial raising of a bid price. Regardless of where the item ends up selling (relative to historical sales), it is illegal in some jurisdictions and unethical everywhere.

[cobblove]

Does the bidding on the 1965 PSA 8 namath look ok? Same bidding with the 1961 Fleer Bill Russell PSA 9, he stoped bidding now that the head is maxed? And on a few other 1961s, he stops once the high bidder is maxed?
Great cards for sure.

0***n( 335)

[tschock]

Do you think the amount of sniping has any effect on shill bidding? If no one sniped, then the shill bidder has more of a chance to up the bid without getting stuck. If everyone sniped, then I would think the shill bidder's risk of getting stuck would be much greater since they have less information in which to gauge the amount of interest. Assuming of course that the shill bidder doesn't want to get stuck with the item.

[cobblove]

I think you can stick it to the guy bidding on the 1961 fleers by putting in a large bid right now and then just wait 1 hour for him to put his 10 bids in bidding you up. And then just retract your bid after he does that.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Fleer-B...item20cf04162b

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Have I ever placed 42 bids on 23 lots exclusively with a single seller? No, I have not. I have never bid that way nor heard of anyone else following that pattern. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

I respectfully disagree. I have sold many times on Ebay and have had people like something of mine and then they search through my other items and they like most of what I have and bid on many items. I have had many people actually contact me in the past and ask my permission to bid since they have such low feedback. Most of my items back then were not baseball related, but that really does not change anything.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Have I ever placed 42 bids on 23 lots exclusively with a single seller? No, I have not. I have never bid that way nor heard of anyone else following that pattern. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

yep smelly fishy