Another shill? You tell me.

[sdkammeyer]

My apologies ... if this comment was directed towards me

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I don't think I recall ever saying it was a valid excuse to ignore a consignor shilling your auctions, because a particular seller is too big.

I simply meant that since it has been mentioned in this thread that the seller has 2,000 auctions going right now, in my opinion, that's no excuse for said seller to say "oh i have too much going on to notice those things"

Again, my apologies if I came across the wrong way, or if you took it the wrong way. It seems that we agree on my points.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sdkammeyer

I simply meant that since it has been mentioned in this thread that the seller has 2,000 auctions going right now, in my opinion, that's no excuse for said seller to say "oh i have too much going on to notice those things"

Again, my apologies if I came across the wrong way, or if you took it the wrong way. It seems that we agree on my points.

Yep, if he's somehow managed how to make a living with straight auctions, when almost no one else can (and ebay discourages that business model), then he knows what's going on.

[T205 GB]

I do believe the seller is a board member. I hope he chimes in

[sdkammeyer]

Thank you Dave ... I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone. My purpose was to point out that eBay puts these restrictions/limits on sellers to make sure they (sellers) can keep their sh*t straight..... and although I do not buy a whole lot from eBay I applaud them for that.

And .......

Originally Posted by T205 GB

I do believe the seller is a board member. I hope he chimes in

I hope they do!!

Shilling is one reason I (personally) will NEVER buy from anyone who takes consignments and sells on eBay.

If you are taking consignments, get yourself an auction house and quit exploiting eBay. That's my personal opinion, it is up for debate, but it is what it is. I tend to spend quite a bit (lately) on my collection but I refuse to buy from an eBay seller that is selling on consignment.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by sdkammeyer

Thank you Dave ... I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone. My purpose was to point out that eBay puts these restrictions/limits on sellers to make sure they (sellers) can keep their sh*t straight..... and although I do not buy a whole lot from eBay I applaud them for that.

And .......




I hope they do!!

Shilling is one reason I (personally) will NEVER buy from anyone who takes consignments and sells on eBay.

If you are taking consignments, get yourself an auction house and quit exploiting eBay. That's my personal opinion, it is up for debate, but it is what it is. I tend to spend quite a bit (lately) on my collection but I refuse to buy from an eBay seller that is selling on consignment.

Well, for transparency sake let me be the first to tell you that I do regularly sell consignments that are sent to me to sell on Ebay, though they are probably not items in your field and I don't exactly deal in a high volume.

Ebay, IS an auction platform, and it's a tool meant to be "exploited" as you say.

I'd be curious as to why you hold that stance on the matter?

How is it any different then a seller offering their own stuff, but not consignments? I do think it's important to let your consignors know, that under no circumstances should they bid in their items in your auctions.

[sdkammeyer]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I'd be curious as to why you hold that stance on the matter?

How is it any different then a seller offering their own stuff, but not consignments? I do think it's important to let your consignors no, that under no circumstances should they bid in their items in your auctions.

I agree with the latter (obviously) that no consigners should be bidding on their own items. Enough said on that matter.

eBay opens the door for that (shilling) to happen and I'm pretty sure that it has been proven that it does in fact happen (probstein and others)

If there is ANYTHING that I wish to purchase for my personal collection, and it is listed on eBay by a seller that takes consignments, there is a 99.9% chance it will pop again from a "private seller" ..... or pop up off off eBay. I would rather get it then.

I am sure I am in the minority, but if there is even a hint, or one iota, of a possibility of a shill bid happening, I just will not do it. ESPECIALLY from a seller who is selling for someone else and stands to make more if the money goes bigger "than normal".

Yes, as a personal seller (mostly of bathroom exhaust fans and military surplus) I could hire people to shill bid my auctions ..... but the facts are the facts .... those who sell for others and take a percentage of the sale have a higher opportunity and a higher rate of shill bidding.

It's just the law of averages.

And, if you take consignments, good for you. I wouldn't recommend announcing that to others. Just my 2 cents. If that's only worth a penny to you or anyone else ..... well then that's fine. But that is why I, personally, will not buy from eBay sellers who announce that they accept consignments.

Again, these are only my personal opinions .... I am picky with my own money and will not give away one extra dollar if I do not have to ..... thats just me.

There is enough bullsh*t going on in this industry with fake cards/autos .... and people purposely "aging" cards to sell that I like things to be as up-and-up as possible.

If I personally have a nice card in nice condition, I will sell it myself. No need to pay someone to sell it for me. Again, that's my opinion, and we are all entitled to one

I have seen MANY MANY cards sold by brand-new eBay sellers that do just fine. And that happens every single day. In my own little mind there is no reason to consign a card on eBay. Again, that's just me.

I am pretty sure we can agree that auction houses are a bit different. Mr. Kissner is a friend of mine (Black Swamp Find.... yes I live in Defiance, Ohio and there are more than a dozen net54 members who can vouch for that)..... he knows nothing about cards, absolutely nothing. He was charged with getting the most out of those E98's as possible for his entire family and he did it the right way. Finding a specialist, taking their advice, and finding a private auction house that will promote "the find" the correct way. THAT ..... in my tiny mind, is the reason to consign a card/cards. If he would have asked me to sell them for him on eBay I would have declined.

Everyone has their own opinion.

[bjk4343]

Hi All,

First post here. This caught my eye because I ran into the same thing with a the same seller on a recent auction. Card went for double what is was selling at in Dec.... Maybe the consignor bidding up his own stuff? I had a max at $110 which was my cap on it. To add, I don't think PWCC is involved. I see it as a issue with any big consignment houses. It would be nearly impossible to track all the bids they get, and who they get them from.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/350705589112...4.m1426.l2649=


http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...Buyer_ViewLink

Bryan

[thehoodedcoder]

Hi

1) how would the seller know anything about the eBay user without them winning.

2) why wouldn't they just have a friend or neighbor schiller for them?

Kevin

[Runscott]

I know what type of response this is going to invite, but...

I'm still not seeing how this business model can work legitimately. Thinking about it as it applies to ebay, I'm also starting to wonder if I'm a bit naive when it comes to non-ebay auctions and consignor shill-bidding.

It's very obvious from reading some of the 'bidding stories' here, that bidders get caught up in the moment and bid more than they had planned (e.g-see underbidder post regarding the recent ebay Chicago Union Giants auction).

Certainly consignors are aware of the above, which is why shilling works. If consignor shilling is what makes the business model work, then the business is illegitimate.

[T205 GB]

That's how to get cheap cards. Open a new eBay acct and bid with a large seller on a lot of items and you guys will say shilling and stay away and I will get cards cheaper. Thanks for the advice guys

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

That's how to get cheap cards. Open a new eBay acct and bid with a large seller on a lot of items and you guys will say shilling and stay away and I will get cards cheaper. Thanks for the advice guys

+1. That is a funny idea.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

+1. That is a funny idea.

Except for the part where the cards aren't cheaper.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by sdkammeyer

My apologies ... if this comment was directed towards me


I simply meant that since it has been mentioned in this thread that the seller has 2,000 auctions going right now, in my opinion, that's no excuse for said seller to say "oh i have too much going on to notice those things"

Again, my apologies if I came across the wrong way, or if you took it the wrong way. It seems that we agree on my points.

No Steve, absolutely no offense taken, and I don't think you were the only one to mention it. It wasn't directed at you in particular.

I do think, if the seller knows of a consignor who is shilling his auctions, he should be able to sniff that out, no matter how big they are. If it takes somebody else bringing up their suspicions with them, they should do their due diligence and follow up on that.

I do know from experience that every oddball bid or bidder doesn't always make a shill. Bidders are strange sometimes, and to pretend to predict how they all act, based on your own bidding history, is not quite in touch with the reality, much of the time.

There's things Ebay can do to make bidders more comfortable in their experience, that they refuse to put into practice. I'd like Ebay to limit the number of bid retractions one is able to place. Maybe one or two every couple months for legitimate mistakes. Serial bid retracting hurts both bidders AND legitimate sellers. If somebody has a lot of retractions they are either shilling auctions, or interfering with auctions of other sellers for their own amusement or curiosity. Unfortunately Ebay thinks every bidder is a good bidder and good for their bottom line, no matter how much chaos they create.