1865 Brooklyn Atlantics CDV for sale

[barrysloate]

Keith's article focused on one aspect of what constitutes a baseball card, and that is how the were distributed. Typically baseball cards are readily available to the public, whether found in a box of cigarettes, a wax pack with bubble gum, a penny exhibit machine, or through some type of promotion. Even Peck & Snyders would fit into that category as anyone could walk into their store and purchase one of their photographic trade cards.

But I do not believe the general public had access to a standard CdV. That Brooklyn Atlantics was likely made for the members of the team to give out to their friends and family. The average fan of the team probably didn't even know they existed. And add to it that they had no advertising, they had no commercial value whatsoever.

So while there are various characteristics of a baseball card, and a CdV fits most of them, they were privately distributed and therefore different from traditional cards as we know them.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

they were privately distributed and therefore different from traditional cards as we know them.

they were certainly different, but given that there was only one, I would add an 'if' to your above statement. I gave some alternatives in my last post.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

But I do not believe the general public had access to a standard CdV. That Brooklyn Atlantics was likely made for the members of the team to give out to their friends and family. The average fan of the team probably didn't even know they existed. And add to it that they had no advertising, they had no commercial value whatsoever.

That's not quite accurate, Barry, at least w/r/t CDVs' availability and value as a commercial product. Some photographers made and sold CDVs of famous people to the general public as collectibles. They definitely had commercial value. Charles Deforest Fredricks had a studio and gallery in NYC from which he retailed his line of famous people CDVs called "Specialite". They were available to the general public as a commercial product. Here is an example:

[barrysloate]

Thanks Adam. Some were, of course, such as the Cincinnati Red Stockings with the ad for Chadwick's Game of Baseball. Many weren't however. I don't believe the Atlantics would have been available publicly.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Thanks Adam. Some were, of course, such as the Cincinnati Red Stockings with the ad for Chadwick's Game of Baseball. Many weren't however. I don't believe the Atlantics would have been available publicly.

Barry, I'm not understanding how you are coming up with that assumption. There was only one produced (as far as we can tell, and as evidenced by the fact that it's a photo affixed to a recycled mount), so there's no proof whatsoever as to what it's intended use actually was - it could have been exactly the same as the Cincinnati Red Stockings cdv, something to be handed out by players to family members, or any of the other possibilities that I listed earlier in this thread.

[oldjudge]

My definition excludes pins and bottle caps but somehow still misses the 3-D plastic baseball cards, which should be included. Maybe an ammendment is necessary.

[barrysloate]

Scott- assuming I understand your question, because most of the Cincinnati Red Stocking cards that have survived contain various product advertising, such as the Peck and Snyder Sportings Goods store, or for Henry Chadwick's book The Game of Baseball, of course those were distributed to as large an audience as possible. When you have a product to sell, you want to get the word out to the public. In the case of the Atlantics CdV, because there is no product advertising, coupled with the fact that only a single one has survived (save the Library of Congress example), that suggests that a limited supply of them were available. Do we know for a fact the general public couldn't buy one of them? No. Is it reasonable to think they weren't able to? That's my opinion.

We don't know enough about how CdV's were distributed and circulated. Most were not available to the public. Some were.

[Runscott]

Barry - Thanks, I completely agree with you.

Also, since the Brooklyn cdv has now been sold, I think it's okay for us to be very honest about our opinions - not just regarding it's 'baseball-cardness'. I'll revive the original thread and piss off half the board by giving mine.