Probstein123 Still amazed he is in business

scooter729 · #1 02-12-2013, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T205 GB

I am well aware of that one and all the ones from a while back as well. This pertains to keeping him on the front line as an issue and bad seller

If you want people to see "him" as a bad seller, you might want to put his name in the subject line. For many folks who simply read thread titles or don't click on the links (or check this thread months from now when the eBay links are dead), you'd never know what seller you're talking about.

#2 02-12-2013, 11:58 PM

The only reason you can even complain about this is because of the semi-transparent bidding system that ebay employs.

With AHs you can't see anything ... you think this would be more or less attractive to shills?

chaddurbin · #3 02-13-2013, 12:08 AM

i was following a '48 signed musial a couple weeks ago, last day bidding it got up to around $320...a pretty good price as prior ones sold for $200-$220. seller cancelled the auction early, next week it was in a probstein auction and ended a couple days ago for $580

. now suddenly 3 more musials has popped up because of this artificially inflated auction. lots more examples like this i've stopped bidding with this guy.

Quan Nguyen

pepis · #4 02-13-2013, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i was following a '48 signed musial a couple weeks ago, last day bidding it got up to around $320...a pretty good price as prior ones sold for $200-$220. seller cancelled the auction early, next week it was in a probstein auction and ended a couple days ago for $580

. now suddenly 3 more musials has popped up because of this artificially inflated auction. lots more examples like this i've stopped bidding with this guy.

What that really means is that he has a strong customer following and they
dont mind spending extra dealing with him instead of venturing with some
unknown source.

Matthew H · #5 02-13-2013, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pepis

What that really means is that he has a strong customer following and they
dont mind spending extra dealing with him instead of venturing with some
unknown source.

Buying from Rick is buying from an unknown source. Most of his items are consignments. Items that aren't consignments may be the only ones not being shilled at this point.

I would like to be proven wrong. Can any board member own up to a recent consignment with Rick to which they can provide a testimonial? I'd like to see one higher then usual price that can be proven an honest sale... Anyone?

Qcards · #6 02-13-2013, 07:07 AM

I have consigned many items with Rick and he gets good results almost every time.

I had a vintage non sport set sitting in my eBay store for over a year at $999 with lots of low ball offers.

I pulled it and sent it to Rick and in a 7 day auction he got over $1,000 for it. I have no interest in shilling my items, I want them sold.

Not sure why this guy keeps getting bashed, he has been nothing but straight with me.

h2oya311 · #7 02-13-2013, 07:24 AM

I have purchased a few items from probstein with no issues, although I have seen some "higher than expected" prices. I attributed it to his better than average auction design, low opening bids ( which drives up interest) and organization/timing of auctions (for instance, having several HOF rookies ending within minutes of one another).

I once purchased a 1957 team issue PC of Frank Robinson for $60 from him( thinking I had overpaid) and sold it about four months later for $100.

You certainly don't see his stuff go for cheap, but I'm not sure if I would attribute it to shill bidding, unless I see evidence to the contrary.

bigwinnerx · #8 02-13-2013, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qcards

I have consigned many items with Rick and he gets good results almost every time.

I had a vintage non sport set sitting in my eBay store for over a year at $999 with lots of low ball offers.

I pulled it and sent it to Rick and in a 7 day auction he got over $1,000 for it. I have no interest in shilling my items, I want them sold.

Not sure why this guy keeps getting bashed, he has been nothing but straight with me.

Seems like you missed your chance to shill your auction up to $1500.

probstein123 · #9 02-13-2013, 09:24 AM

Gentlemen....
I find it puzzling that people with a strong sense of morality have no problem trashing people publicly with nothing more than accusations...

re shilling....
currently, we sell over 100,000 auctions a year, I'm the only person on my staff
that knows jesse haines is a HOF er...meaning, I'm crazed busy dealing with the operation of making sure my consignors items are presented correctly...plus I have 5 kids !! repeat: 100,000+ auctions annually...

on shilling, it takes place all over the industry...its a problem everywhere and except people dealing directly on net54 or buying cards at shows....
within ebay, sellers do not have access to bidders high bids...this differs with many auction houses where they have access to see who is bidding....
shill bidding is much worse in the auction house world in my opinion...

I always hear people want proof, well here is an example...
we just sold this item for $12,000 on ebay
" 1942 St Louis Cardinals Team Signed Baseball w/ Musial Slaughter + JSA LOA AUTO " ...the winning bidder triple bid against himself 3 times...meaning he was willing to pay more...did I get on my bat phone and find a bidder to jack up the price ...no ? Mike Q , posted on the thread, mike, have I have prompted you to bid on my auctions ?
we block bidders that we think are problematic...

we get strong prices primarily because we have created a culture where buyers know they can find great items either with realistic BIN's or auction of high end items that start at 99 cent...

as ebays largest seller , we will always be a target...anyone can say anything in a thread ...if you do see problematic activity, please call me at 973 747 6304 and I will address it ..thanks, rick

ScottFandango · #10 02-22-2013, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qcards

I have consigned many items with Rick and he gets good results almost every time.

I had a vintage non sport set sitting in my eBay store for over a year at $999 with lots of low ball offers.

I pulled it and sent it to Rick and in a 7 day auction he got over $1,000 for it. I have no interest in shilling my items, I want them sold.

Not sure why this guy keeps getting bashed, he has been nothing but straight with me.

just look at his auctions and the SHADY BIDDERS who seem to only bid with him and NEVER WIN, plus have 100s of retractions....it doesnt take a genius to see whats going on....

Sean1125 · #11 02-13-2013, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Buying from Rick is buying from an unknown source. Most of his items are consignments. Items that aren't consignments may be the only ones not being shilled at this point.

I would like to be proven wrong. Can any board member own up to a recent consignment with Rick to which they can provide a testimonial? I'd like to see one higher then usual price that can be proven an honest sale... Anyone?

I will sort through my previous listings and see what I can come up with.

I DO NOT and WILL NOT EVER bid on my own auctions. I had 2 Dan Marinos and 2 Elway Rookies end for $160... I was only asking $60 for the 4 cards locally. I also have had some partial sets that I estimate in the 1500-1800 range end 2500-3200

Matthew H · #12 02-13-2013, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I will sort through my previous listings and see what I can come up with.

I DO NOT and WILL NOT EVER bid on my own auctions. I had 2 Dan Marinos and 2 Elway Rookies end for $160... I was only asking $60 for the 4 cards locally. I also have had some partial sets that I estimate in the 1500-1800 range end 2500-3200

Thank you for sharing that.

ngrow9 · #13 02-13-2013, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubblebathgirl

The only reason you can even complain about this is because of the semi-transparent bidding system that ebay employs.

With AHs you can't see anything ... you think this would be more or less attractive to shills?

I realize this is probably a fruitless response, but one of the greatest downside risks of shilling in any auction system is that you outbid the field and get stuck with your own item. Should that happen on eBay, the actual out of pocket loss is rather minimal, basically just the listing fees (if any) and portion of the final price kept by eBay (around 9%). However, the odds of winning your own lot on eBay are quite low, because you can always retract a bid. So despite any transparency, there is little risk to shilling on eBay.

Conversely, should you outbid the field in an AH auction, your out-of-pocket loss will be much more significant, as you will owe both the hefty consignment fee as well as the bidder's premium. You could easily end up losing 1/3rd of the value of the item in the end. Moreover, it is much harder (if not impossible) to retract a bid.

Ergo, even though eBay may be a little more transparent, overall I believe the risk of shilling is greater on eBay than at an AH for the simple reasons that the risk of winning your own lot is much lower due to retraction, and the cost of winning your own lot is much lower than at an AH.

ullmandds · #14 02-13-2013, 08:28 AM

I used to buy from him somewhat regularly...but will definitely think twice about doing so these days.

CardTarget · #15 02-13-2013, 08:36 AM

The guy takes GREAT pictures in every one of his auctions. Front pics, back pics, high quality.

It's not his job to police his auctions to make sure that the consigners cousin isn't bidding. That's unrealistic.

He's doing a good job and earning his commission - unless there is evidence that he's directly involved leave the guy alone.

tschock · #16 02-13-2013, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngrow9

I realize this is probably a fruitless response, but one of the greatest downside risks of shilling in any auction system is that you outbid the field and get stuck with your own item. Should that happen on eBay, the actual out of pocket loss is rather minimal, basically just the listing fees (if any) and portion of the final price kept by eBay (around 9%). However, the odds of winning your own lot on eBay are quite low, because you can always retract a bid. So despite any transparency, there is little risk to shilling on eBay.

Conversely, should you outbid the field in an AH auction, your out-of-pocket loss will be much more significant, as you will owe both the hefty consignment fee as well as the bidder's premium. You could easily end up losing 1/3rd of the value of the item in the end. Moreover, it is much harder (if not impossible) to retract a bid.

Ergo, even though eBay may be a little more transparent, overall you are much more likely to be subjected to shilling on eBay than at an AH for the simple reasons that the risk of winning your own lot is much lower due to retraction, and the cost of winning your own lot is much lower than at an AH.

"I realize this is probably a fruitless response" - It is. Providing valid reasons pro AH and anti-ebay are never considered. Higher prices realized through auctions than on ebay are obvious proof of shill bidding (sarcasm). There can be no other explanation (even though many have been offered).

And again you hit on the obvious question/concern that Paul never has addressed. There is little to no downside to shilling on ebay. If you get caught, you get "banned" until you create a new account or get someone else to do your bidding (pun intended). Beyond the token banning by ebay, has anyone ever been prosecuted for any of these nefarious activities? If so, great, and I stand corrected. But if not, then STFU about ebay's "transparency". It is a law with no teeth. Much like "keep right except to pass".

And regarding ebay's so-called transparency,
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...l-bidding.html - Often what appears to be shill bidding isn't a violation. If there is evidence of shill bidding, we will take action, which may include listing cancellation or referral to law enforcement. However, our privacy policy prevents us from disclosing the details of our investigation to other members, including the person who reported the issue.

So if someone is banned or an auction is taken down, how does anyone actually know it was because of shill bidding? Or how does anyone know shill bidding is even happening? Ebay basically implies in the first statement that y'all are just stupid buyers and couldn't recognize a shill bidder, or shill bidding isn't going on, which makes transparency a moot point then anyway, right?

tcdyess · #17 02-13-2013, 09:06 AM

Ok, now I'm thoroughly confused. I am following an auction from him on a card that I want, but now have no clue whether or not I should bid.... meh.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360586885146...84.m1423.l2649

smtjoy · #18 02-13-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcdyess

Ok, now I'm thoroughly confused. I am following an auction from him on a card that I want, but now have no clue whether or not I should bid.... meh.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360586885146...84.m1423.l2649

Humm yea I would not be worried bidding on this card..........

Top bidder-
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 136
Items bid on: 92
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 94%

Underbidder-
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 43
Items bid on: 7
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 62%

chaddurbin · #19 02-13-2013, 10:55 AM

imo t206 and cj commons usually were consigned by collectors and bidded by other pre-war collectors. most of the shill biddings would occur with modern stuff or low pop graded where there are more speculators and investors, would be more advantageous there where you can create a market for a card or simply get a buzz or hype it up.

T206DK · #20 02-13-2013, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smtjoy

Humm yea I would not be worried bidding on this card..........

Top bidder-
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 136
Items bid on: 92
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 94%

Underbidder-
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 43
Items bid on: 7
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 62%

Kirk to Enterprise .....yellow alert !!

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