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#1
02-16-2013, 10:55 AM
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Mr. Jordan the Dubuque photographer who made this image was in business until around 1890. We know Mr Jordan and Mr Comiskey knew each other. So I own a Dubuque Cabinet photo found in St Louis, with a player who with his distictive widow peak haircut "resembles" Comiskey during a period when Comiskey would have been playing ball in Dubuque. I am pleased the
discussion has elevated from not even close, and no comparison to resembles. I am very open to more serious research and any upper level discussion! I have seen tests and discussions with other important baseball images where they do all kinds tests with lines across, up and down and around and around, etc-etc. A more complete complex computer proportion evaluation. A brief history of my photograph: About twenty years ago while browsing through a St Louis Antique Shop I found this photo in a stack of other Cabinet photographs. I purchased it and took it home and put it in a box. Thats where it rested for another eight years until one evening while reading The Offical Encyclopedia of Baseball I happened to come acoss the article about Ted Sullivan forming the NW League which included Loftus, Comiskey and Radbourn. I remembered the baseball Photo I purchased was stamped HA Jordan- Dubuque. Of course I went to find and retreive the photo. Around that same time I had purchased a substantial Brooklyn Dodger collection. When a buyer drove down from Michigan to look, he purchased the entire collection. He asked if there was anything else I would be interested in selling. I showed him the photo and he asked if it would be OK to take it back with him-Sure no problem-. I quess around two months later he returned and bought my beautifully signed 1950's snow white Brooklyn Dodger baseball and returned the photo with the reasoning none of the players sported mustaches.-Sure no problem-, so again I took the photo home and again put it away in a box. About year later I came across the St Louis Browns photo I had purchased in the early 1980's from a shop in Ste Geneiveve Missouri. When viewing that photo is when it hit me--most importantly it showed Comiskey not wearing a cap. It took me a little while to locate my cabinet photo which I finally found at the bottom of a box. I then contacted and sent photocopies of both images to a authority on sports memorabilia and autographs. After studing the two photographs in his opinion -quote- "I can't see how anyone can say it isn't Comiskey " and put a value on the photograph at that time around $1500.00. I hope this clears up any intentions I intended to fabricate some fictitous silly get rich quick scheme. I will continue to research avenues of authentication when I have the time. So for now this will conclude and end my discussions. Someday I will attend another National Sports convention or the Chicago Sun show with the actual photograph. I do appreciate the response + the contructive discussion. I can be contacted by email tsc@mvp.net-- Thanks again. Tom Last edited by Directly; 03-16-2013 at 08:00 AM. |
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#2
02-16-2013, 10:58 AM
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Are you sure thats not Ty Cobbs? It looks like Cobbs to me
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#3
02-16-2013, 11:31 AM
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>>I am pleased the discussion has elevated from not even close, and no comparison to resembles.
You remain completely confused. Resembles + ear mismatch means that we know with certainty it is not Comiskey. >>I have seen tests and discussions with other important baseball images where they do all kinds tests with lines across, up and down and around and around, etc-etc. Most likely, they were written by me. In your case, the ear mismatch is all we need. >>I then contacted and sent photocopies of both images to a authority on sports memorabilia and autographs. After studing the two photographs in his opinion -quote- "I can't see how anyone can say it isn't Comiskey " First - who was he? Second, "authoriies" on sports memorabilia and autographs are almost never authorities on facial comparison. Third, why don't you tell us about when you tried to consign this photo - what happened? >> So I own a Dubuque Cabinet photo found in St Louis, with a player who with his distictive widow peak haircut "resembles" Comiskey during a period when Comiskey Below is the real Comiskey in a Dubuque uniform - not a widows peak. In any case, a lot of people have them. As far as the value of your own judgments about all this, see post #4 above. Last edited by bmarlowe1; 02-16-2013 at 11:42 AM. |
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#4
02-16-2013, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
You discount the simple "ear test" that Mark has presented, which compares distinct features which cannot be altered, choosing instead to lean on the hairstyle the guy is sporting? A feature that could be altered at whim? Do you seriously think that Comiskey was the only guy sporting a widow's peak in that area/time? Here's the thing about comparing photographs of people to determine identity: all it takes is 1 feature that doesn't match up to render any number of similarities moot. If 1 guy's ears are lower on the head than the other's, it's not the same guy. If 1 guy's eyes are closer together than the other's, it's not the same guy. Same goes for location of nose on the face, jaw structure, eye color, etc. And yes, shape of the ears as well. It doesn't matter if the rest of the facial features appear to match up completely, if there is 1 unalterable feature that DOESN'T match, it's not the same guy. You couldn't change the spacing of your eyes, or move the location of your nose on your face, or change the color of your eyes (in that day and time, at least). And unless you are suggesting that the gentleman in your photograph sheared off the lower part of his ear between photographs, he couldn't have changed the shape of his ear so drastically either. Think of it like you're on the jury for a murder case in court: You look at all the evidence presented, and make your determination based on that evidence. If there is 1 factor that introduces reasonable doubt, you don't find the defendent guilty. If all the evidence matches up except that the defendent is on surveilance video in Phoenix at the time the guy was murdered in DC, you don't say, "well, I still think he looks like a killer, so I'll say he's guilty." It doesn't matter how many people concluded he was guilty prior to that one key piece of evidence being presented. If they, like you, made their judgement in absence of that key piece of evidence, they made the wrong judgement. It's not a comment on the intelligence or expertise of those who made faulty judgements before (well, depending on how obvious the new evidence is), but cases are overturned all the time based on the introduction of new evidence. I don't know who the other "authority on sports memorabilia and autographs" was that you consulted, but I would not be so quick to discount Mark's very simple and thorough presentation of new evidence. When the opinions of two authorities differ, you then have to look at why they differ. Mark has explained very clearly why his opinion differs from your authority's. The ears are something that I too have often overlooked when comparing photos, but that was through my own neglect, not because they are unimportant. If your authority has an explanation for the difference of the shapes of the ears other than "I hadn't considered that factor," I'm sure we would all be glad to hear it. |
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